Best Ever PSU wrestler

[headshuck 2,586]

Nm

Edited August 4, 2018 by headshuck

[TBar1977 4,481]

One thing people overlook with Taylor is his sheer importance to the PSU program. He is the first one to take the Cael Sanderson constant offense style and totally run with it, and this helped bring others into the fold later on down the road. 

 

I read a post on PSU board showing Taylor's 103 NCAA team points scored. That is approx. 10 more than Zain. If Nolf finishes strong he will get to about 97. Ruth is also around that number of 96-97. If Cenzo stays on his pace he can win 4 titles to DT's 2, but he will have less than 90 team points. According to that post, if Taylor "only" scored what Cenzo is scoring it is the difference between winning and losing to Oklahoma State and Minnesota at NCAA's a few years back. 

[KTG119 820]

 

 

 

ps, didn't John Hughes finish 1,2,3,4?

Hughes was a 3x AA. 7th place soph year, champ as a junior, 2nd as a senior. 

[KTG119 820]

One thing people overlook with Taylor is his sheer importance to the PSU program. He is the first one to take the Cael Sanderson constant offense style and totally run with it, and this helped bring others into the fold later on down the road. 

 

I read a post on PSU board showing Taylor's 103 NCAA team points scored. That is approx. 10 more than Zain. If Nolf finishes strong he will get to about 97. Ruth is also around that number of 96-97. If Cenzo stays on his pace he can win 4 titles to DT's 2, but he will have less than 90 team points. According to that post, if Taylor "only" scored what Cenzo is scoring it is the difference between winning and losing to Oklahoma State and Minnesota at NCAA's a few years back. 

where's Bo on the team point scale?

[bnwtwg 1,000]

Right now it's Ed Ruth. Next year it will probably be a debate between Nolf, Nickal, and Ruth with Nolf likely getting most of the votes assuming he dominates everyone this year. If Joseph becomes a 4 timer I think you have to give that title to him even though he wasn't as dominate as the others. You just can't count any of the current guys now because nothing is a guarantee and you don't how they will finish. So the correct answer is Ed Ruth.

 

Concerning Joseph, it is crazy that he is still underrated as a 2x champ with two years left. His current path (and Nolf's to a lesser extent) is eerily similar to Imar, and his future may also go accordingly with just a few losses, and fall short as an upperclassman; he could also end up as the fifth 4x champ; either way he won't even be the most talked about teammate of his own class. 

[TBar1977 4,481]

where's Bo on the team point scale?

 

 

Not sure.

[headshuck 2,586]

Joseph must not have a cheerleader (parent, sibling) on the board.

Edited August 2, 2018 by headshuck

[headshuck 2,586]

Does Mark Hall have a chance to make it to the top of the list?

[WildTurkey44 321]

Does Mark Hall have a chance to make it to the top of the list?

Brucki,Alex Meyer and Zahid say not quite

[cjc007 774]

Hughes was a 3x AA. 7th place soph year, champ as a junior, 2nd as a senior.

correct

 

Sent from my XT1254 usin

Edited August 2, 2018 by cjc007

[cjc007 774]

Joseph must not have a cheerleader (parent, sibling) on the board.

Vinnie Joe is the anomaly.

 

He wouldn't be favored over Zain, Nolf, Taylor, or Ruth (lb for lb adjusted).

 

However he's going to win 4 titles (most likely) and go down as #1 in penn state history.

 

A remarkable big match wrestler.

 

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Edited August 2, 2018 by cjc007

[WRfan1 152]

Well he did lose to, but also beat, a four time NCAA champ and would be world champ. In all fairness to everyone, Taylor never beat Dake and (to this point) Dake hasn’t won a world championship. Zain gets the nod on this one.

The Stieber win is big for Zain, but the fact he won the WC doesn't factor for me, that wasn't a legit WC in my book, the best in the world weren't there. Results since has proven it.  I also think Zain finished his career as a better wrestler than Stieber when he ended, but that's all opinion.  I think if Zain redshirts, he probably goes at least 2, 1, 1, 1 and gets the nod. 

[Lurker 2,033]

The Stieber win is big for Zain, but the fact he won the WC doesn't factor for me, that wasn't a legit WC in my book, the best in the world weren't there. Results since has proven it. I also think Zain finished his career as a better wrestler than Stieber when he ended, but that's all opinion. I think if Zain redshirts, he probably goes at least 2, 1, 1, 1 and gets the nod.

I agree with the Steiber WC, I’ve made the same point in other topics. I was referring that in the context of responding to someone’s comment that Zain didn’t wrestle anywhere near the caliber of Dake, when in fact the one year he didn’t win the title, he lost to but also beat a four time champ who went on to be (officially speaking) a world champ. So yeah, he did have to deal with someone near the caliber of Dake. I realize the four titles didn’t come in four weight classes. But four time champ is extremely elite company. Zain not only had to deal with it, he beat the upper class man as a true freshman. Taylor never beat Dake (others did). That’s all I was getting at.

[Eagle26 580]

Joseph suffers from "Ed Ruth syndrome"... Quietly amassing the best results on his team, but being overshadowed by teammates who are more flashy and/or score more bonus. Thus being overlooked as the best wrestler on his team.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Eagle26

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

I agree with the Steiber WC, I’ve made the same point in other topics. I was referring that in the context of responding to someone’s comment that Zain didn’t wrestle anywhere near the caliber of Dake, when in fact the one year he didn’t win the title, he lost to but also beat a four time champ who went on to be (officially speaking) a world champ. So yeah, he did have to deal with someone near the caliber of Dake. I realize the four titles didn’t come in four weight classes. But four time champ is extremely elite company. Zain not only had to deal with it, he beat the upper class man as a true freshman. Taylor never beat Dake (others did). That’s all I was getting at.

 

[hammerlockthree 2,581]

good point about taylor being better than dake.

[Lurker 2,033]

My bad. Didn’t know Cadets factored in...thought we were talking about College.

[hammerlockthree 2,581]

What about middle school....in other sports.

[cjc007 774]

What about middle school....in other sports.

U 6 soccer is where it's all. My kid scored 15 goals in one game!

 

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[CholleyVandine 33]

Based on college only, its Ruth.  Highest average placing, only 3 loses, ridiculous bonus percentage. 

 

Ruth and Taylor have the same average placement at NCAAs (3-1-1-1 = 2-1-2-1, according to math).

 

Taylor also had only three losses.

 

Taylor had more pins, more tech falls, and a higher bonus rate.

 

Taylor only had three close wins in his college career (i.e., wins by 3 points or fewer). Ed had 15.

 

They both won four Big Ten titles. Taylor scored 93 team points during his career at the B1G tournament, Ruth scored 85.5.

 

Taylor scored 101 career points at NCAAs (fourth highest total in NCAA history). Ruth scored 96.5 (tied for fifth highest total).

 

Taylor won two Hodge trophies.

 

Based on college only, it was Taylor.

Edited August 3, 2018 by CholleyVandine

[cjc007 774]

Ruth and Taylor have the same average placement at NCAAs (3-1-1-1 = 2-1-2-1, according to math).

 

Taylor also had only three losses.

 

Taylor had more pins, more tech falls, and a higher bonus rate.

 

Taylor only had three close wins in his college career (i.e., wins by 3 points or fewer). Ed had 15.

 

They both won four Big Ten titles. Taylor scored 93 team points during his career at the B1G tournament, Ruth scored 85.5.

 

Taylor scored 101 career points at NCAAs (fourth highest total in NCAA history). Ruth scored 96.5 (tied for fifth highest total).

 

Taylor won two Hodge trophies.

 

Based on college only, it was Taylor.

No. 3>2 and Taylor took two losses at NCAA's while Ruth only had one NCAA loss.

 

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[PSUMike 445]

Taylor

Zain

Ruth

 

After that, it's murky. When Nolf runs the table next season, I think he'll leap frog at least Ruth in my mind if not more of them. 

[Old_Marine_Wrestler 245]

Zain, Taylor, Ruth - all great to watch and fantastic wrestlers!

 

I go with Ruth over Taylor.  Like me, (although for different reasons!) he chose Penn State for Penn State, not because of who the coach was.

 

Not the original question, but I'd put it as decades:

 

70's - Andy Matter

80's - Dr. Jimmy Martin

90's - Kerry McCoy (was it mentioned that McCoy's freshman year he was at 190? After the move to heavy he went on that 3 year 1 loss run)

00's - Phil Davis

10s - Ed Ruth

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

What high schooler did Zain lose to in college?  Also, regarding DT's losses, I would factor in that Zain never lost after his freshman year and his win over Stieber as a freshman was very more impressive than DT's wins.  Plus DT has 2 titles to Zain's 3.  I will say based on arguments presented at this point, Ruth would be the closest to Retherford.

 

Now, after next year, Nolf is real close and if Cenzo runs the table and especially if he doesnt' lose, he's got to be the top guy.

 

 

ps, didn't John Hughes finish 1,2,3,4?

 

Keep in mind this is talking  about "best" not who had the better resume.       Watching them Taylor just seemed better to me than Zain.      

 

Zain  was getting beat up by a HS kid named Pico .   Happened into his sophomore year I believe, then Pico moved on to professional  sports.    

 

I like Zain and I hope he's our guy at 65 kg next year, I just don't believe he was better than Taylor while in college.     

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

I always chuckle a little when people say Zain was beat by a high school kid because while technically true, Pico was no ordinary high school kid and referring to him as such makes it sound like he was...