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WCAP and college eligibility?


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#1 TripNSweep

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:00 AM

I wondered if somebody who went the Randy Couture route, joining the military after a year of college, but instead of doing it for the reasons that led to him enlisting, like suppose they took a RS their first year in college and joined WCAP.  Would they be preserving their eligibility by staying in WCAP for 4 years and then have 4 years left to wrestle in college?  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#2 JHRoseWrestling

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:05 PM

I think the funding associated with WCAP would render the athlete ineligible.

I am not an NCAA compliance officer, but here is my understanding:
You are correct that military service puts a hold on the "clock" of the student athlete. Training while enlisted in an environment available to any other enlisted individual regardless of ability should be no problem. In the WCAP the athlete would have coaching, training and competition, as well as travel and entry fees provided. Explicit in the name of program is the requirement the athlete be identified as "world class". I am virtually positive this would trigger an extra benefit, regardless of clock or enlistment in the US military.

Edited by JHRoseWrestling, 07 August 2018 - 05:26 PM.


#3 KTG119

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:28 AM

I wondered if somebody who went the Randy Couture route, joining the military after a year of college, but instead of doing it for the reasons that led to him enlisting, like suppose they took a RS their first year in college and joined WCAP.  Would they be preserving their eligibility by staying in WCAP for 4 years and then have 4 years left to wrestle in college?  

is this what Manville is doing? 



#4 TripNSweep

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:02 AM

I think the funding associated with WCAP would render the athlete ineligible.

I am not an NCAA compliance officer, but here is my understanding:
You are correct that military service puts a hold on the "clock" of the student athlete. Training while enlisted in an environment available to any other enlisted individual regardless of ability should be no problem. In the WCAP the athlete would have coaching, training and competition, as well as travel and entry fees provided. Explicit in the name of program is the requirement the athlete be identified as "world class". I am virtually positive this would trigger an extra benefit, regardless of clock or enlistment in the US military.

 

You may be right, but when you enter into WCAP that isn't your military job they trained you for. Because when guys enter the Army and are guaranteed to be able to go into WCAP they still have to do basic training and AIT in whatever they are able to according to their ASVAB.  All of the athletes in any sport who are in WCAP can be dropped at any time and sent back to do whatever it was the Army trained them to do.  So like if Spenser Mango had started not winning a lot and maybe missed placing at nationals or something, the Army would basically tell him that he was going to do his regular Army job and not train all the time anymore.  Then he would have to work his way back into the WCAP program. At least that's how I've always understood it to be.  

 

As to how that would affect college eligibility I wonder because while you're in the Army you're following their orders, even in WCAP. If they say you need to wrestle at this tournament you pretty much have to unless you're injured or something.  That isn't like a regular college, this is your duty as a soldier to listen to what they tell you to do.  Because technically you're competing in service to the Army.  It would be different if you're competing for Sunkist or Titan Mercury where they pay for your travel or entry fees or something.  If you disobey orders from the Army there can be serious consequences to not following them. 


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#5 LJB

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:17 AM

you have to be top 5 nationally at your weight to continue to qualify as a WCAP athlete... as long as you maintain that ranking you are allowed to train full time



#6 olddirty

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 09:36 AM

I think the funding associated with WCAP would render the athlete ineligible.

I am not an NCAA compliance officer, but here is my understanding:
You are correct that military service puts a hold on the "clock" of the student athlete. Training while enlisted in an environment available to any other enlisted individual regardless of ability should be no problem. In the WCAP the athlete would have coaching, training and competition, as well as travel and entry fees provided. Explicit in the name of program is the requirement the athlete be identified as "world class". I am virtually positive this would trigger an extra benefit, regardless of clock or enlistment in the US military.

I dont believe this to be the case.  Clubs can pay your fees, housing, and food, and it doesnt count as you being non compliant.  Taking a stipend for training, and prize money for competing is what causes you to lose eligibility.  If you can remember, this happened to Jake Deitchler when I was at the OTC.  He lived there, trained there, had all of his fees paid for, and even got a stipend.  The NCAA required him to give back a few prize money issues he had, then cleared him all 4 years.

 

All of the guys who wrestle in WCAP who I know all told me the same thing:  You get paid by your rank and pay grade, not by being in WCAP.  When you are traveling overseas, they give you per diems and travel pay.  They do not give you prize money for winning. 



#7 Gantry

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

you have to be top 5 nationally at your weight to continue to qualify as a WCAP athlete... as long as you maintain that ranking you are allowed to train full time

 

So if you take 6th at WTT you are out of the program?  Or is it a more fluid "around top5" thing?



#8 LJB

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:08 PM

my understanding it is a hard line stance, but, i don't think taking 6th at a tourney automatically means you are now ranked 6th...



#9 Gantry

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 04:13 PM

Not "a tourney" but WTTs - going to be really hard to be ranked in the top5 if you take 6th at WTTs.  Unless injury plays a role...  then again I have no idea what their ranking criteria is.

 

Do they have WCAP for men's freestyle still?  I remember some people being in it (Moza Fay maybe) but I'm totally blanking right now...



#10 LJB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:37 AM

they have WCAP for greco/free/womens


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#11 Gantry

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:14 AM

Thanks, who is on the men's freestyle team at the moment?



#12 LJB

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:30 AM

i could not answer that off the top of my head... clearly, the top free guys go through our lame folk system, but, i do see WCAP free guys in tourneys... best way to see would be to go search the military world tourney... that tourney is specifically for wrestlers in the world military systems... i cannot remember the name of the tourney, but, should be an easy enough find on the google webs...



#13 Pinnum

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:01 AM

Thanks, who is on the men's freestyle team at the moment?



This was from last year. Makes me think none are training full-time in WCAP.

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#14 TripNSweep

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Posted Today, 01:35 AM

https://www.armymwr....letes/wrestling

 

I would have thought they had more in the program.  Did they drop anybody recently?


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#15 LJB

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Posted Today, 02:21 AM

that is just the army... all branches have a WCAP program for a variety of sports...






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