Who would win

[T-nigs23 90]

Flo posted two pictures on Facebook. One of the '09 NCAA champs and the other of last years winners. Who would win?

[unbiased 349]

What's facebook?

[GockeS 95]

have to say PSU

Iowa only had one in the final.

 

or are you talking each individual matchup

2009 125 vs. 2018 125 etc...

Edited August 9, 2018 by GockeS

[TBar1977 2,455]

have to say PSU

Iowa only had one in the final.

 

or are you talking each individual matchup

2009 125 vs. 2018 125 etc...

 

 

I think he means individuals vs individuals, not team champ vs team champ. 

[Chrissn2001 49]

First of all, why was '09 selected?  Seems a little random...anyway, here's my guess:

 

125)  Lee by decision 

133)  Gomez by decision 

141)  Jaggers by decision - Great March wrestler

149) Retherford by decision, but this could be interesting

157) Burroughs by decision

165) Joseph by decision

174) Valencia by major

184) Herbert by decision

197) Varner by decision

285) Snyder by major

 

I have it 17-15 2018 guys.  It's a little hard not to let the old guys post college accomplishments influence my predictions.

[GockeS 95]

125 nickerson    winner: Lee

133 Gomez        winner: Gross

141 yanni           winner: jaggers i think he could deal w/ yanni's funk

149 caldwell      winner:retherford...but close

157 nolf             winner: JB tho i like nolf alot here

165 King            winner: Joseph

174 Luke           winner: valencia

184 nickal          winner: herbert... in his prime just too big for nickal

197 mach          winner: varner... horsepower

HWT Ellis          winner: snyder

 

just an opinion. I dont claim to be an expert. Just a feel. However, I attended both tourney's. and stayed at a holiday inn express last night.

[jchapman 459]

It would be interesting to see runner-up Howe vs Joseph.  Two bulls going at it.

[MSU158 1,150]

09 vs 18

125: Nickerson vs. Lee. Nickerson was super crafty, but his body was already making it hard for him at that point. Lee was a buzzsaw by NCAA's. I see him beating Troy similar to Suriano.

133: Gomez vs Gross. My MSU sentimentalism leans towards Gomez, but it would come down to him getting a couple takedowns in the 1st and NOT getting turned later on.

141: Jaggers vs Yianni. Jaggers was money at NCAA's his last 2 years and had the ability in scrambles that few would have against Yianni. The leg attacks that worked for him so often may get him cradled against Jaggers. I have to go with J.

149: Caldwell vs Retherford. I would pick Retherford 7 out of 10 or more if they just wrestled matches. But, at that NCAA's, Caldwell was at his absolute best. I think Caldwell could give Zain fits on his feet, but I don't think he could weather Zain on top. I have to go with Zain, but Caldwell could definitely win that match if he gets a couple takedowns in the 1st without going down and if he got choice in the 2nd to choose neutral. Getting through the 1st 2 and forcing Retherford to choose in the 3rd would be a huge advantage.

157: Burroughs vs Nolf. Their version at NCAA's, I would have to go Burroughs just because he finished clean and Nolf was short a leg to counter. A fully healthy Nolf wins.

165: King vs Joseph. King was a talent, but still a big surprise. Styles make match ups, so I would look for a 3-2 type match in Joseph's favor.

174: Luke vs Valencia. Recency bias would heavily favor Zahid, but Luke was undefeated that year for a reason. He was as positionally solid as it gets and had a super gas tank. Still, I will give it to Zahid, but wouldn't be the least bit surprised of Luke won.

184: Herbert vs Nickal. Two all time greats. Herbert won the Hodge that year and wrestled some very tough weight classes. Nickal's big moves makes him so dangerous, but I think Herbert's low risk singles would pull it out for him if he didn't press scrambles to hard.

197:Varner vs Macchiavello. Have to go Varner here without much thought. He was starting to replace Jake "Varnish" that season and was just too strong and sound for the Cinderella story.

285: Snyder vs Ellis. Ellis was another sort of Cinderella story and would get overwhelmed quickly.


That would actually put it at 5-5.

Edited August 9, 2018 by MSU158

[GockeS 95]

msu based on your analysis of 174, i may have to change my position.

I agree luke was a beast...

 

some great thoughts there overall.

[T-nigs23 90]

What's facebook?

It's where people who barely know each other can act like they're friends

[T-nigs23 90]

Yea I don't know why '09 was selected. Maybe they felt they would matchup well with each other and apprantly they were right as everyone is predicting a split or close to that. I guess you could say that about most years though. A better question would be what two years would clause the biggest mismatch.

[GockeS 95]

interesting idea T

[tec87 290]

Yea I don't know why '09 was selected. Maybe they felt they would matchup well with each other and apprantly they were right as everyone is predicting a split or close to that. I guess you could say that about most years though. A better question would be what two years would clause the biggest mismatch.

well 09-18 is 10 NCAA tournaments. So they would have went with the lineups to bookend that 10yr span.

[unbiased 349]

It's where people who barely know each other can act like they're friends

Hmmm, no thanks. I'll stay here where people actually don't like each other.

[TobusRex 1,018]

Nolf would've dominated JB in folk. JB's strength is suited for FS more than Folk. Nolf is an awesome folkstyle/funk guy. Wouldn't even be close, unless it was FR Nolf vs Sr JB.

Edited August 11, 2018 by TobusRex

[JasonBryant 1,160]

Nolf would've dominated JB in folk. JB's strength is suited for FS more than Folk. Nolf is an awesome folkstyle/funk guy. Wouldn't even be close, unless it was FR Nolf vs Sr JB.

Burroughs was a FORCE in college. No one dominates Burroughs those last two years

[TobusRex 1,018]

Burroughs was a FORCE in college. No one dominates Burroughs those last two years

 

You are entitled to your opinion.

Edited August 13, 2018 by TobusRex

[WildTurkey44 321]

Nolf dominate Burroughs in 09? Lmao

[Alwayswrestling 111]

Agree everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how clueless it is. Nolf is not beating Burroughs let alone dominating him.

Edited August 14, 2018 by Alwayswrestling

[MSU158 1,150]

Agree everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how clueless it is. Nolf is not beating Burrogjs let alone dominating him.

Have to disagree here.  Burroughs was super solid at 157, but the following year he got hurt and the next year at 165 was when he really stepped it up.  Now, I do agree that domination is highly unlikely, but Nolf is relentless and exceptionally difficult to score on.  That Junior season, Burroughs was a master at the 2step backwards and then shoot.  I just don't see that working against Nolf.

 

I was always a fan of Burroughs, but I simply think Nolf is one of the best PURE Folkstylers we have ever seen.  He is just too good at every aspect.  Gas tank, neutral(defense and offense), top and bottom.

[Alexander_Delarge_655321 61]

Nolf would've dominated JB in folk. JB's strength is suited for FS more than Folk. Nolf is an awesome folkstyle/funk guy. Wouldn't even be close, unless it was FR Nolf vs Sr JB.

 

LMAO. 

[headache 69]

Have to disagree here.  Burroughs was super solid at 157, but the following year he got hurt and the next year at 165 was when he really stepped it up.  Now, I do agree that domination is highly unlikely, but Nolf is relentless and exceptionally difficult to score on.  That Junior season, Burroughs was a master at the 2step backwards and then shoot.  I just don't see that working against Nolf.

 

I was always a fan of Burroughs, but I simply think Nolf is one of the best PURE Folkstylers we have ever seen.  He is just too good at every aspect.  Gas tank, neutral(defense and offense), top and bottom.

 

The best wrestler Nolf faced in college was Imar - and they split matches. Nolf hasn't majored Kemerer in three tries (9-4, 8-2, and 6-2). Last year - pre-injury - Nolf barely got by Pantaleo - 6-4. Junior/senior Burrough's is a HUGE step up from anyone Nolf has faced in college.

Edited August 13, 2018 by headache

[MSU158 1,150]

The best wrestler Nolf faced in college was Imar - and they split matches. Nolf hasn't majored Kemerer in three tries (9-4, 8-2, and 6-2). Last year - pre-injury - Nolf barely got by Pantaleo - 6-4. Junior/senior Burrough's is a HUGE step up from anyone Nolf has faced in college.

Again, we aren't talking about World/Olympic Champion Burroughs.  We are talking about Junior 157 Burroughs who was 2 years removed from the 165 Burroughs.  Also, did you just use 9-4, 8-2, 6-2  and even 6-4 wins to try to bring down Nolf????  Should we use that argument for Retherford against Sorensen or Collica or Stieber only beating Dardanes because his coaches can't count? Was Dake really not that good because he had no problem winning 4-0???

 

Finally, you think it is fair to use what happened to Nolf as a Freshman against a 4X Finalist for your argument, so should we then use Burrough's Freshman results?

[treep2000 561]

Again, we aren't talking about World/Olympic Champion Burroughs.  We are talking about Junior 157 Burroughs who was 2 years removed from the 165 Burroughs.  Also, did you just use 9-4, 8-2, 6-2  and even 6-4 wins to try to bring down Nolf????  Should we use that argument for Retherford against Sorensen or Collica or Stieber only beating Dardanes because his coaches can't count? Was Dake really not that good because he had no problem winning 4-0???

 

Finally, you think it is fair to use what happened to Nolf as a Freshman against a 4X Finalist for your argument, so should we then use Burrough's Freshman results?

 

 

Some pretty valid points here...  

 

I too would take the current (and healthy) 157 version of Nolf vs. the 157 version of Burroughs.  It's a different style of wrestling, one that favors Nolf.  Will Nolf "destroy" Burroughs... Probably not.  But... I think he would win a controlled match with a few funky flurries that only Nolf can execute.  

 

FS Burroughs at 74kg vs. the best Nolf has shown... Burroughs "hands-down".  

[headache 69]

Again, we aren't talking about World/Olympic Champion Burroughs.  We are talking about Junior 157 Burroughs who was 2 years removed from the 165 Burroughs.  Also, did you just use 9-4, 8-2, 6-2  and even 6-4 wins to try to bring down Nolf????  Should we use that argument for Retherford against Sorensen or Collica or Stieber only beating Dardanes because his coaches can't count? Was Dake really not that good because he had no problem winning 4-0???

 

Finally, you think it is fair to use what happened to Nolf as a Freshman against a 4X Finalist for your argument, so should we then use Burrough's Freshman results?

 

You got your opinion, I got mine. I'm not going round and round with you as that's a pointless waste of time.