Who would win

[MSU158 2,038]

You got your opinion, I got mine. I'm not going round and round with you as that's a pointless waste of time. 

That is fine.  Just so you know, Burroughs only beat Mike Chandler 6-4 in the Big 12 Finals that year as well as 4-3 during the regular season........

Edited August 13, 2018 by MSU158

[GockeS 549]

but he majored gillespie and beat poeta 5-1 

[MSU158 2,038]

but he majored gillespie and beat poeta 5-1 

Yep.  My point was to pretty much discredit the using only the close match WINS to diminish how good someone is/was.

[Lurker 2,049]

It’s pretty hard to funk your way out of an explosive blast double. So the question would be could Nolf completely stuff the blast double and take JB down. And that’s hard to say because we haven’t seen Nolf wrestle the kind of athlete JB is. If he Nolf cant do that, his top game would be nullified. Would love to see this fantasy matchup.

[JasonBryant 2,119]

Even in college, Mr. Burroughs was more than simply a blast double. At 157 pounds in 2009, when people will just assume JB wasn't nearly as good as he was at 165 pounds.

 

Can Nolf match winning a field this deep? Dunno, he's never had one this talented. Top-heavy with I-Mar, sure, but here's the facts. 

 

2009

Not including Burroughs, who was a three-time All-American and two-time champion, here was that single bracket. 

 

It totaled 13 wrestlers who earned 28 All-American honors, including three champions and three more finalists. 

 

Four-Time All-Americans: Gregor Gillespie (Champ)

Three-Time All-Americans: Mike Poeta (2x Finalist), J.P. O'Connor (Champ), Jason Welch (Finalist), Jordan Leen (Champ)

Two-Time All-Americans: Chase Pami (Finalist), Adam Hall, Cyler Sanderson, Matt Moley

All-Americans: Michael Chandler, Tyler Safratowich, Jedd Moore, Justin Gaethje

 

Anyone who wins that weight ... doesn't get dominated at that weight. Sorry, it might be my opinion, but you can't dispute those facts. 

 

No one beats JB those last two seasons, let alone dominates him. 

[Lurker 2,049]

Agreed he was more than blast double (if I remember right he was taking poeta down with singles?) and that’s not what I was getting at. Was looking strictly at the matchup as opposed to comparative results. Given Nolfs ability to scramble and do some crazy things, from a tactical/game plan perspective I believe that double would be the go to scoring option because it nullifies all that. Hence why I believe that match would come down to would Nolf be able to stuff it and take JB down. All fantasy stuff but fun to think about during a slow period. Very much agree no way in hell anyone “dominates” JB either of those last two seasons. I don’t believe Nolf or anyone in recent 57-65 range beats him. Actually beyond recent...

[NJWC 305]

Even in college, Mr. Burroughs was more than simply a blast double. At 157 pounds in 2009, when people will just assume JB wasn't nearly as good as he was at 165 pounds.

 

Can Nolf match winning a field this deep? Dunno, he's never had one this talented. Top-heavy with I-Mar, sure, but here's the facts.

 

2009

Not including Burroughs, who was a three-time All-American and two-time champion, here was that single bracket.

 

It totaled 13 wrestlers who earned 28 All-American honors, including three champions and three more finalists.

 

Four-Time All-Americans: Gregor Gillespie (Champ)

Three-Time All-Americans: Mike Poeta (2x Finalist), J.P. O'Connor (Champ), Jason Welch (Finalist), Jordan Leen (Champ)

Two-Time All-Americans: Chase Pami (Finalist), Adam Hall, Cyler Sanderson, Matt Moley

All-Americans: Michael Chandler, Tyler Safratowich, Jedd Moore, Justin Gaethje

 

Anyone who wins that weight ... doesn't get dominated at that weight. Sorry, it might be my opinion, but you can't dispute those facts.

 

No one beats JB those last two seasons, let alone dominates him.

Agree 100%, but the Pa/PSU guys simply can’t or won’t accept that one of their heroes isn’t the best.

It took Dake flat out owning Taylor time and again, pitching a career long shutout, to finally admit it wasn’t just a bad matchup. Dake was just better.

Same with JB. Nolf is great, but has never been at the level of Jordan Burroughs.

[MSU158 2,038]

Even in college, Mr. Burroughs was more than simply a blast double. At 157 pounds in 2009, when people will just assume JB wasn't nearly as good as he was at 165 pounds.

 

Can Nolf match winning a field this deep? Dunno, he's never had one this talented. Top-heavy with I-Mar, sure, but here's the facts. 

 

2009

Not including Burroughs, who was a three-time All-American and two-time champion, here was that single bracket. 

 

It totaled 13 wrestlers who earned 28 All-American honors, including three champions and three more finalists. 

 

Four-Time All-Americans: Gregor Gillespie (Champ)

Three-Time All-Americans: Mike Poeta (2x Finalist), J.P. O'Connor (Champ), Jason Welch (Finalist), Jordan Leen (Champ)

Two-Time All-Americans: Chase Pami (Finalist), Adam Hall, Cyler Sanderson, Matt Moley

All-Americans: Michael Chandler, Tyler Safratowich, Jedd Moore, Justin Gaethje

 

Anyone who wins that weight ... doesn't get dominated at that weight. Sorry, it might be my opinion, but you can't dispute those facts. 

 

No one beats JB those last two seasons, let alone dominates him. 

I agree with the domination part and never hinted at it.  I simply think that Nolf was too good in all positions and would be the one guy that could close the space Burroughs usually created in neutral without getting taken down and could force several stall calls.

 

No one should be saying that Burroughs was just a blast double, but he did almost exclusively wrestle from space and was a master at the 2step backstep.  Go back and watch the Poeta match again.  That match really bothered me initially because I thought Poeta was the better all around wrestler that year, but he couldn't close the space, especially from the 2nd period on after Burroughs got the 1st period takedown with 1sec left.  In fact, the 5-1 score only resulted from a 2nd takedown with 2 secs left after a desperation shot from about 7 feet away.

 

I simply think Nolf is a solid step above Poeta or anyone in that field for that matter.  Gillespie was a lot like Nick Simmons in that he was long and a monster on the mat, but was susceptible on his feet.  Leen was actually quite similar.  I just don't think there was anyone in that field with near the neutral skills of Nolf, let alone the gas tank and overall mat wrestling.

 

With all of that said, I was also never a fan of wrestling from space almost the entire match.  Switching it up was a great tactic, but I see it as too much of a chance to strategically stall.  The fast guys with great low shots master it and pure kudos to them for doing so.  But, it often creates awkward matches with the top guys that work from ties and you end up seeing them tripoding a ton.

[Husker_Du 882]

Agree 100%, but the Pa/PSU guys simply can’t or won’t accept that one of their heroes isn’t the best.

It took Dake flat out owning Taylor time and again, pitching a career long shutout, to finally admit it wasn’t just a bad matchup. Dake was just better.

Same with JB. Nolf is great, but has never been at the level of Jordan Burroughs.

 

can you point out the Pa/PSU people on this thread? 

 

thanks

[NJWC 305]

can you point out the Pa/PSU people on this thread?

 

thanks

Can you point out where I said “on this thread”? Thanks.

[headshuck 2,626]

PSU guys always win the hypothetical matches on TheMat. Been that way for years now.

[StallWarning 186]

Agreed he was more than blast double (if I remember right he was taking poeta down with singles?) and that’s not what I was getting at. Was looking strictly at the matchup as opposed to comparative results. Given Nolfs ability to scramble and do some crazy things, from a tactical/game plan perspective I believe that double would be the go to scoring option because it nullifies all that. Hence why I believe that match would come down to would Nolf be able to stuff it and take JB down. All fantasy stuff but fun to think about during a slow period. Very much agree no way in hell anyone “dominates” JB either of those last two seasons. I don’t believe Nolf or anyone in recent 57-65 range beats him. Actually beyond recent...

 

Nolf has shown how he counters blast doubles.  Just some food for thought.

 

[TobusRex 2,108]

This should play every time Nolf makes an entrance.

 

[TobusRex 2,108]

PSU guys always win the hypothetical matches on TheMat. Been that way for years now.

 

To be fair they usually win the actual matches on the actual mat :D Been that way for years.

Edited August 15, 2018 by TobusRex

[swoopdown 631]

This should play every time Nolf makes an entrance.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tvvQQmi7HY

Good song for Nolf until some guy from Jersey snapped the gumband (Pittsburghese)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peso 331]

Nolf would've dominated JB in folk. JB's strength is suited for FS more than Folk. Nolf is an awesome folkstyle/funk guy. Wouldn't even be close, unless it was FR Nolf vs Sr J

 

Yeah, Burroughs was amazing his senior year.  I'd pay a monthly pay check to see him and Nolf in both their prime Folkstyle.  I think I'd take JB.  He won worlds the next year.

[GockeS 549]

maybe in the next few months

[JasonBryant 2,119]

Nolf has shown how he counters blast doubles. Just some food for thought.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpWDsE71Lg

More food for thought: May Bethea isn’t Jordan Burroughs.

[Lurker 2,049]

Nolf has shown how he counters blast doubles. Just some food for thought.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydpWDsE71Lg

Which is why I made sure to include in my original post, we haven’t seen Nolf wrestle the kind of athlete JB is.

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

IMO Junior year 157 JB was no where near the same level as Senior year 165 JB.

[MSU158 2,038]

Yeah, Burroughs was amazing his senior year.  I'd pay a monthly pay check to see him and Nolf in both their prime Folkstyle.  I think I'd take JB.  He won worlds the next year.

Nope.  And that was a major part of my argument.  Burroughs won NCAA's at 157 in 2009 as a True Junior.  He then injured him self the following season 8 matches in.  He was then granted a medical and won NCAA's at 165 the following year in 2011, following that up with a Gold Medal in Istanbul.

 

Point being, 157 NCAA Champ Burroughs was a solid distance away from the 165 NCAA Champ and 74kg World Champ.

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

Nope.  And that was a major part of my argument.  Burroughs won NCAA's at 157 in 2009 as a True Junior.  He then injured him self the following season 8 matches in.  He was then granted a medical and won NCAA's at 165 the following year in 2011, following that up with a Gold Medal in Istanbul.

 

Point being, 157 NCAA Champ Burroughs was a solid distance away from the 165 NCAA Champ and 74kg World Champ.

 

Wise words spoken by a wise man.

[Alwayswrestling 227]

No doubt the 165 lb JB was better than the 157 lb JB but IMO the 157 lb JB still would of handled Nolf.

[nom 1,209]

I firmly believe people are calling JB due to knowledge of his awesomeness his senior year and post college.

 

Nolf hasn’t had those years yet. But I won’t expect him to have JB results post college.

 

Still, Nolf’s unreal results and skill the past few years put me in the camp of Nolf winning vs 157 JB. Nolf is pretty special at folkstyle.

[jcjcjc 122]

I agree with the domination part and never hinted at it.  I simply think that Nolf was too good in all positions and would be the one guy that could close the space Burroughs usually created in neutral without getting taken down and could force several stall calls.

 

No one should be saying that Burroughs was just a blast double, but he did almost exclusively wrestle from space and was a master at the 2step backstep.  Go back and watch the Poeta match again.  That match really bothered me initially because I thought Poeta was the better all around wrestler that year, but he couldn't close the space, especially from the 2nd period on after Burroughs got the 1st period takedown with 1sec left.  In fact, the 5-1 score only resulted from a 2nd takedown with 2 secs left after a desperation shot from about 7 feet away.

 

I simply think Nolf is a solid step above Poeta or anyone in that field for that matter.  Gillespie was a lot like Nick Simmons in that he was long and a monster on the mat, but was susceptible on his feet.  Leen was actually quite similar.  I just don't think there was anyone in that field with near the neutral skills of Nolf, let alone the gas tank and overall mat wrestling.

 

With all of that said, I was also never a fan of wrestling from space almost the entire match.  Switching it up was a great tactic, but I see it as too much of a chance to strategically stall.  The fast guys with great low shots master it and pure kudos to them for doing so.  But, it often creates awkward matches with the top guys that work from ties and you end up seeing them tripoding a ton.

...so you just don't like Burroughs style?

 

Also, I don't understand your interpretation of Gillespie and Leen being like Nick Simmons. They wrestled explosively on their feet while Nick Simmons crawled around like a praying mantis.