'10 Hawkeyes vs '18 Nittany Lions

[MSU158 1,983]

The '09 vs '18 individual thread got me thinking that Iowa is the only team in the last 10+ that could maybe challenge PSU. Even the tOSU team was a far cry from the 130+ points necessary to be in the conversation.

 

Here are the match ups only:

 

125: McDonough vs. Kuhn

133: Dennis vs. Keener

141: Marion vs. Lee

149: Metcalf vs. Retherford

157: Kerr vs. Nolf

165: Morningstar vs Joseph

174. Borschel vs. Hall

184: Keddy vs. Nickal

197: Beatty vs. Rasheed

285: Erekson vs. Nevills

[GockeS 534]

Iowa wins the first four. maybe... retherford maybe starts 7 wins in a row for PSU

 

HWT might be tight.

[jchapman 1,320]

The '09 vs '18 individual thread got me thinking that Iowa is the only team in the last 10+ that could maybe challenge PSU. Even the tOSU team was a far cry from the 130+ points necessary to be in the conversation.

 

Here are the match ups only:

 

125: McDonough vs. Kuhn

133: Dennis vs. Keener

141: Marion vs. Lee

149: Metcalf vs. Retherford

157: Kerr vs. Nolf

165: Morningstar vs Joseph

174. Borschel vs. Hall

184: Keddy vs. Nickal

197: Beatty vs. Rasheed

285: Erekson vs. Nevills

McBono

Dennis

Marion

Zain

Nolf

Joseph

Hall

Nickal

Tossup-Raheed more talented and dynamic, Beatty very solid and could capitalize on a mistake

Nevills

[jchapman 1,320]

Iowa wins the first four. maybe... retherford maybe starts 7 wins in a row for PSU

 

HWT might be tight.

I would take 08 Metcalf

[GockeS 534]

good point. I like zain, but metcalf was such a horse... and talented...

[headshuck 2,588]

Metcalf all day. Always been a fan.

[GockeS 534]

Metcalf all day. Always been a fan.

this was my first thought... metcalf would beat z, but you just never know.

149 and HWT are the only matches I'm not really sure about...

Edited August 9, 2018 by GockeS

[russelscout 1,573]

I could see Metcalf losing, but borschel's senior year, I take him over hall. He was 37-0 and really dominated much of the year except his semi match against the Virginia kid. Against Lewnes he showed his ability to get to the legs and finish against great neutral defense, which would be key against hall.

[MSU158 1,983]

There are more tossups than you think.  If you go at their best(without injuries):  The last 3 guys in that Iowa lineup all battled injuries(Keddy, Beatty and Erekson)

 

149: Metcalf vs Zain would be worth the price of admission alone.

174: Borscel vs Hall.  I am 100% surprised that all have dismissed Jay so far(except russelscout who posted after I started this post).  He was a monster that season and took down Mr. Untakedownable(new word?) Mack Lewnes multiple times in the Finals.

197: Beatty vs Rasheed

285: Erekson vs Nevills  Erekson was a 2x B1G Champ and was right with the top guys at the weight having beaten the NCAA Champ Zabriskie.

 

184:  Keddy was much better than most give him credit for.  He simply suffered through significant injuries his last season and wrestled in a brutal weight class.  His Junior year his only losses during the regular season were to Herbert with wins over the likes of Pucillo.  At NCAA's he lost a questionable OT heartbreaker in the quarters to Umbehauer and again in the 3rd place match.   With that said, I would definitely favor Nickal, but could absolutely make it tough for him if he wrestled him smarter than Brooks did.

 

 

If I had to pick a dual result:

 

125: McDonough by fall  Iowa 6-0

133: Dennis by MD         Iowa 10-0

141: Marion by dec.        Iowa 13-0

149: Retherford by dec.  Iowa 13-3  Picking over Metcalf KILLED me!!!

157: Nolf by TF               Iowa 13-8

165: Joseph by dec.       Iowa 13-11

174: Borschel by dec.     Iowa 16-11

184: Nickal by dec.         Iowa 16-14

197: Rasheed by dec.    PSU 17-16

285: Erekson by dec.      Iowa 19-17

 

If Nickal can catch Keddy, they win the dual.  Now, I think the team makeup favors Iowa in a dual setting, but definitely favors PSU in a tournament.

 

Putting them both in the 2018 field(again, assuming fully healthy):

 

125: McDonough(assuming you can't have 2 Iowa guys wrestling) 25+,  PSU-0

133: Dennis 20+  I don't see anyone at Ness's level in that weight class.  Keener-.5

141: Marion 18-20ish  Marion navigated a very deep 141(Dake, Humphrey, Parks, Thorn, Bailey,Novachkov, Krom, Nauman and Diaz) that could match this past deep 141.  Lee 15

149: Metcalf 21  Metcalf destroys everyone, but Retherford.  Retherford-26

157: Kerr 1.5  Probably gets a couple wins on the backside like before.  Nolf-28  Fully healthy he scores the most out of anyone.

165: Morningstar-6.5  This one is hard as he was a true warrior to battle through injury to AA.  Still, this past 165 was super deep and making the podium would have been very tough. Joseph 23

174: Borschel 18-20ish  Zahid makes it hard to guess both guys point totals.  Hall 20

184: Keddy-6  Nickal 25

197: Beatty-4  Rasheed 10

285: Erekson-15  Nevills 15

 

That puts Iowa at around 145 and PSU with 162.5

Edited August 9, 2018 by MSU158

[TBar1977 4,494]

PSU would win comfortably. The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

Hall would beat Borschel 9 times out of 10 imo.

[Frank_Rizzo 336]

The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

What style is that?  The "have the very best wrestlers on your team" style?  Because everyone tries to teach that style.  Iowa succeeds at it too from time to time, e.g. Spencer Lee. 

[MSU158 1,983]

PSU would win comfortably. The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

Hall would beat Borschel 9 times out of 10 imo.

A great blanket statement with no actual analysis.  Sanderson didn't beat "Iowa Style"  like a drum when he was at ISU.  At PSU he has simply had BETTER wrestlers.  The '09 team matches up VERY WELL with PSU.

 

Iowa from 125-149,174 was every bit as strong as PSU from 149-184.  In a dual setting, Iowa actually has an advantage as they don't have the 2 big holes PSU had at 125 and 133.  Now, I agree that PSU would be too much for them in a tournament setting, but head to head, this Iowa team is RIGHT THERE with them.

[TBar1977 4,494]

It won' t matter how I or anyone else describes what Sanderson's style is, and fortunately no explanation is required. We Sanderson fans can see it, and that is all that matters.

[steamboat_charlie 727]

PSU would win comfortably. The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

Hall would beat Borschel 9 times out of 10 imo.

 

Ignoring the troll portion of your post... gotta agree with the second half.  

 

In what world is Jay Borschel favored over Mark Hall?

[headshuck 2,588]

TBar should just opt out of these threads. He gets too emotional.

Edited August 9, 2018 by headshuck

[steamboat_charlie 727]

It won' t matter how I or anyone else describes what Sanderson's style is, and fortunately no explanation is required. We Sanderson fans can see it, and that is all that matters.

 

This deserves another Tina Fey eye roll gif 

[steamboat_charlie 727]

By the way, a prime Retherford vs. prime Metcalf matchup is virtually guaranteed to feature blood time, some penalty points, or injury.  Potentially all 3.  

[MSU158 1,983]

PSU would win comfortably. The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

Hall would beat Borschel 9 times out of 10 imo.

Also, Marinelli and Meyer would disagree with that blanket statement having both beaten PSU NCAA Champs with the "Iowa Style".  Hell, even Sorensen gave Retherford some tight matches.

 

Has PSU been clearly better than Iowa almost the entire last 8 years?  No doubt whatsoever.  Has Iowa had a team remotely as good as '10 since then?  Not even close!

[MSU158 1,983]

Ignoring the troll portion of your post... gotta agree with the second half.  

 

In what world is Jay Borschel favored over Mark Hall?

The one where he went undefeated and beat an undefeated, not once taken down, Lewnes quite soundly.  Still, I only put him as a toss-up.  But, I don't see how you call Hall a favorite over him.  I have similar thinking with Luke vs Hall.  Recency bias often skews these arguments.  Guys don't just go undefeated at the DI level if they are not really good.......

[boconnell 1,623]

PSU would win comfortably. The style taught by Sanderson has literally beaten "Iowa Style" like a drum.

 

Hall would beat Borschel 9 times out of 10 imo.

I think PSU wins the dual all day.  I'd go Retherford over Metcalf and a blowout overall.

 

But I think 174 would be far more interesting and I'd probably favor Borschel.  Hall has a hard time with basic guys who don't give anything away.  He scores on counters and guys like Meyer have given him trouble just by not doing anything and being good at sprawling.  He doesn't wrestle the PSU style that picks apart Iowa.  

Edited August 9, 2018 by boconnell

[MSU158 1,983]

I think PSU wins the dual all day.  I'd go Retherford over Metcalf and a blowout overall.

 

But I think 174 would be far more interesting and I'd probably favor Borschel.  Hall has a hard time with basic guys who don't give anything away.  He scores on counters and guys like Meyer have given him trouble just by not doing anything and being good at sprawling.  He doesn't wrestle the PSU style that picks apart Iowa.  

I am interested to see how you come up with a blowout when 125-141 should create a considerable lead for Iowa. Would you mind doing a match by match summary?  I am interested to see the numbers.  Please and thank you.

[steamboat_charlie 727]

The one where he went undefeated and beat an undefeated, not once taken down, Lewnes quite soundly.  Still, I only put him as a toss-up.  But, I don't see how you call Hall a favorite over him.  I have similar thinking with Luke vs Hall.  Recency bias often skews these arguments.  Guys don't just go undefeated at the DI level if they are not really good.......

 

Yeah you're probably right about recency bias.  Maybe it's closer than I'm saying, senior vs. sophomore should be taken into account as well, but IMO there's just a large talent disparity between Hall and Borschel.  

[TBar1977 4,494]

Has PSU been clearly better than Iowa almost the entire last 8 years? No doubt whatsoever. Has Iowa had a team remotely as good as '10 since then? Not even close!

 

You don't realize those two statements are connected? And for charlie, I wasn't trolling even though I expected the eye roll comment. Iows not winning any championships and PSU winning 7 of the last 8 are connected to Sanderson moving East.

 

Frank Rizxo, Sanderson getting so many top recruits is connected to what he is teaching. None of this happens in a vacuum. Iowa fans like to make the same claim, but it is silliness to think Sanderson just lands recruits without his coaching being part of that.

[MSU158 1,983]

You don't realize those two statements are connected? And for charlie, I wasn't trolling even though I expected the eye roll comment. Iows not winning any championships and PSU winning 7 of the last 8 are connected to Sanderson moving East.

 

Frank Rizxo, Sanderson getting so many top recruits is connected to what he is teaching. None of this happens in a vacuum. Iowa fans like to make the same claim, but it is silliness to think Sanderson just lands recruits without his coaching being part of that.

You don't realize that LITERALLY has NOTHING to do with this topic?

 

The topic is about the 10' team vs. the last PSU team.  Because you believe Sanderson has created a CURRENT gap between PSU and everyone else, let alone Iowa, has NO effect on the makeup of the '10 team BEFORE Sanderson started his run(but he was actually at PSU that season)......

[WildTurkey44 321]

TBar ruins almost every thread here. Seriously