Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JBluegill133

Richard Perry accident

Recommended Posts

Dodge ball, fine.

 

Jousting? For people with no experience with jousting? I can't see it.

So if he took one in the eye playing dodge ball (even though I never mentioned dodge ball yet you decided to quote me and go with that) or slam ball, or mat ball, or any of the other non wrestling activities that we partake in during training, it would be okay. Because most of the wrestling athletes we see participating in these practice activities are on the side professionals at these? But since it’s jousting, no good. Is that correct?

 

The jousting is a side activity that’s not nearly as dangerous as the actual profession he’s chosen. But accidents happen. They happen all the time, when nobody is truly liable. Freak accidents happen. Why can’t we just leave it at that?

Edited by Lurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel terrible for Perry. Truly due. But accidents happen. Freak accidents happen. Particularly when you are DECIDING to make a living in a high contact sport that integrates training methods the majority of the people on this planet want no part of. But a freak accident happens during a side activity as part of that training, and everyone wants to sue. My opinion is that attitude is shameful. If he had taken one in the eye playing matball, would we be screaming sue?? No??? Why, because matball is so safe? Such a wise activity to take part in for a wrestling practice? Must not be because you hardly ever hear about a team playing matball.....Accidents happen and I’m sorry it did. I contributed to his fund. Not much but what I could. But this automatically “sue somebody” mentality really bothers me. Every accident is not someone’s fault. Sometimes, accidents just happen. Especially in a lifestyle such as world class level wrestling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel terrible for Perry. Truly due. But accidents happen. Freak accidents happen. Particularly when you are DECIDING to make a living in a high contact sport that integrates training methods the majority of the people on this planet want no part of. But a freak accident happens during a side activity as part of that training, and everyone wants to sue. My opinion is that attitude is shameful. If he had taken one in the eye playing matball, would we be screaming sue?? No??? Why, because matball is so safe? Such a wise activity to take part in for a wrestling practice? Must not be because you hardly ever hear about a team playing matball.....Accidents happen and I’m sorry it did. I contributed to his fund. Not much but what I could. But this automatically “sue somebody” mentality really bothers me. Every accident is not someone’s fault. Sometimes, accidents just happen. Especially in a lifestyle such as world class level wrestling.

You think a helmet shattering and impaling his brain is just one of those things that could happen when you decide to be a wrestler?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You think a helmet shattering and impaling his brain is just one of those things that could happen when you decide to be a wrestler?

That’s not at all what I said, don’t twist my words. Be straight if you want to have a discussion. Im saying it was an accident, and accidents happen. And we don’t need to find someone we can sue anytime an accident happens. Was he playing against his will? Was he sitting off to the side and someone came and jacked him with a joust? Not at all what it sounds like. I’m questioning those who are screaming sue sue sue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That’s not at all what I said, don’t twist my words. Be straight if you want to have a discussion. Im saying it was an accident, and accidents happen. And we don’t need to find someone we can sue anytime an accident happens. Was he playing against his will? Was he sitting off to the side and someone came and jacked him with a joust? Not at all what it sounds like. I’m questioning those who are screaming sue sue sue.

Let's be honest, there's no valid reason to train at a military facility.

 

Pugil sticks fighting is intense. There's no excuse in the world for having our guys out there jousting in preparation for Worlds.

 

A really stupid ploy. Tough guy nonsense.

 

I think Joe Russell should resign and permanently barred from USA Wrestling.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be honest, there's no valid reason to train at a military facility.

 

Pugil sticks fighting is intense. There's no excuse in the world for having our guys out there jousting in preparation for Worlds.

 

A really stupid ploy. Tough guy nonsense.

 

I think Joe Russell should resign and permanently barred from USA Wrestling.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

What is the big reason not to be training at a military facility? Wrestlers train on military bases all the time. I don’t see why that is a big problem at all.

 

Matball is a very intense, high risk of injury activity. But wrestling teams engage in that all the time. If a serious injury was suffered playing matball, I doubt we’d be calling for Joe Russell to be banned from USAW permanently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is the big reason not to be training at a military facility? Wrestlers train on military bases all the time. I don’t see why that is a big problem at all.

 

Matball is a very intense, high risk of injury activity. But wrestling teams engage in that all the time. If a serious injury was suffered playing matball, I doubt we’d be calling for Joe Russell to be banned from USAW permanently.

I'm dealing with reality, not some type of hypothetical nonsense.

 

If Joe has any class, he will resign.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What hypothetical nonsense are you referring to?

And while you’re answering that question, Please also explain why training at a military base is such a ludicrous act.

Edited by Lurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's be honest, there's no valid reason to train at a military facility.

 

Pugil sticks fighting is intense. There's no excuse in the world for having our guys out there jousting in preparation for Worlds.

 

A really stupid ploy. Tough guy nonsense.

 

I think Joe Russell should resign and permanently barred from USA Wrestling.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Our team often trains on military bases all over the world. Why would you be against that? What?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if he took one in the eye playing dodge ball (even though I never mentioned dodge ball yet you decided to quote me and go with that) or slam ball, or mat ball, or any of the other non wrestling activities that we partake in during training, it would be okay. Because most of the wrestling athletes we see participating in these practice activities are on the side professionals at these? But since it’s jousting, no good. Is that correct?

 

The jousting is a side activity that’s not nearly as dangerous as the actual profession he’s chosen. But accidents happen. They happen all the time, when nobody is truly liable. Freak accidents happen. Why can’t we just leave it at that?

Dodge ball, mat ball, slam ball are all fine. A fresk accident with a soft ball isn't life threatening.

 

I watched numerous pugil stick videos involving marines. I think our wrestlers are in significantly better shape and can wield commensurately significantly more speed with those sticks. The increase in speed would cause a commensurate increase in risk. Someone called it a 1 in a billion risk. Not so sure I would agree with that.

 

I would never recommend using them with our wrestlers. And I am NOT placing blame. I respect your pov, you should respect mine and not just dismiss it out of hand. The risk inherent with the activity obviously presented itself, didn't it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure where you are getting I’m simply just dismissing it out of hand, I just simply don’t agree with the pov. Yes there is of course risk within. My point being there is significant risk with a lot of the activities programs engage in at all levels. In my opinion, the outcry is that we are just not used to hearing/seeing jousting being one of these activities, not that it has such a higher risk of injury than many of the activities we do engage in more commonly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will admit I’m taking my stance without a lot of the details, which is not my normal M.O. Have tried finding but can’t find much. For example I am assuming they were not actually on horses, but can’t find anything to confirm that. What kind of sticks were they using, etc?

 

Having said that, I don’t see at all how training camp on a military base is in any way a bad thing, or how it really has anything to do with this.

Edited by Lurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Pugil sticks would be a good fun exercise for the wrestlers. If it is indeed the culprit in Rick Perry’s accident, then I would think it as a freak accident. I would hazard that the injury occurred within inside pugil stick - a large disc at bottom or top of foam would be the one that does the damage.

 

However, that’s the assumption. The military and civilian has been using them for very long time. The accidents similar to this must be rare as the pugil sticks would have been modified or banned from certain groups. So it must be just a freak unfortunate accident.

 

I thought pugil stick exercise would’ve been fun for us. I would have participated in it- a lot!

Edited by Buckeyebison

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Extreme migraine from facepalming at some of these comments.  Should a team do some off-mat cross training?  Absolutely.  What type?  Something that keeps the metabolism moving but minimizes risk of injury.  Can you get injured playing team handball or going swimming?  Yes--but that's not even a valid justification for whipping out the pugil sticks right before a World Championship with guys who have never used them before.  "Hey, let's take the guys cliff-diving--it'll build team unity!"  Wrestling is already brutal enough; you don't add to the risk with an unfamiliar activity before a major championship.  It is beyond irresponsible.  When I trained in Europe almost 40 years ago, every Friday we played soccer in the gym above the wrestling room.  We put on plastics and the idea was to run around, get our minds off our misery, have some laughs, get our weight down for the weigh-in the next day. Yes, it got rough, but everyone knew the gameplan and no one got stupid.  In college, we played team handball to break up the monotony; same idea, bust a sweat, get your mind off the grind, keep the roughhousing to a minimum.  When I worked at the '96 Olympics, after light drilling the Russian team asked for a basketball in the days before weigh-in, They played a crude form of basketball (little if any dribbling, lots of grabbing, a little bumping, no throwing anyone to the mat, no tackling, no body checks, etc.).  Same when I hosted the Turkish Olympic team when they were coached by Shakmuradov--a little basketball cross training to break a sweat.  Miron Kharchilava has told me many stories about being on the Soviet national team.  Their training camps were exceptionally tough; six straight weeks of intensive drilling and matches.  They then tapered, and the last week they did light drilling in the morning and later in the day they actually dropped the guys off in a local park for an hour to just walk around; burn energy, keep the metabolism kicking, BUT NOT RISK INJURY (yes, I'm shouting).  Training at a military base should not be confused with being in the military; the guys are there to do a job--prepare to win a World title.  Introducing pugil sticks is idiotic.  Pugil sticks, with proper instruction and equipment that doesn't break on contact and impale the user through an eye socket, are good to introduce the physicality of combat to new troops, many of whom have never done any intense physical combat of any type in their lives.  These are world-class wrestlers training for a very specific purpose.  God help Rich and his family.  If he is experiencing paralysis and his brain was actually stabbed as it sounds, he's got a long grueling road ahead to live a somewhat normal life.

Edited by Coach_J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In respect to Coach J’s post, I also want to clarify that I’m not saying “what is everyone’s problem, the jousting is a great idea”. What I am saying is that it’s a break up activity with much risk, just as many other of our activities are, and I don’t agree with the calls for lawsuits or Russell being banned from USAW. That’s really my stance here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In respect to Coach J’s post, I also want to clarify that I’m not saying “what is everyone’s problem, the jousting is a great idea”. What I am saying is that it’s a break up activity with much risk, just as many other of our activities are, and I don’t agree with the calls for lawsuits or Russell being banned from USAW. That’s really my stance here.

You're entitled to your opinion.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Coach_J position. Nothing wrong with breaking things up with other sports. Nothing wrong with utilizing military base. The risk is just too high using the pugil sticks.

 

I won't be shocked if we learn the padded part of the stick just broke down. So it's an accident. It's also an avoidable accident.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based on the rumors about what happened, it sounds like Perry may have suffered a very serious and possibly life-altering injury.  All of us here, I'm sure, genuinely hope Perry and his family can get back on track.

Edited by Katie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To further Katie's observations, the wrestling team could have merely observed the presence of pugil sticks and spontaneously came up with the idea to try them out for purely fun purposes. Maybe the wrestlers themselves came up with the idea, we don't know. So everything can be with good intentions and without any hint of malice. It can still be a poor idea simply because of how fast and hard these particular world class athletes can wield the sticks. It can be a poor idea if the sticks OR the head gear isn't in 100% optimum condition. 

 

Coach_J made a good analogy when he asked if one would consider cliff diving for these wrestlers to be a good idea. If not, why not? The answer should be obvious in the case of cliff diving. But many other activities also cause needless risk. Would it be a good idea to have them all go to the military base gun range and line up at the range and just start firing rounds off without first being trained? That would be a huge no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that cliff diving and firing guns offer no cross-training benefit whatsoever. So I would disagree that either is a good analogy.

Again not debating whether or not jousting was a good idea, debating the thought of lawsuits and bans on USAW staff, acknowledging I don’t know all the details.

Edited by Lurker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that cliff diving and firing guns offer no cross-training benefit whatsoever. So I would disagree that either is a good analogy.

Again not debating whether or not jousting was a good idea, debating the thought of lawsuits and bans on USAW staff, acknowledging I don’t know all the details.

I have not and will not get into the lawsuit end of the debate. That is its own separate issue. I only care about the use of the pugil sticks, and I think you are missing the broader point. That being that some activities carry risk beyond what is necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not missing that point at all, I understand what you are saying. My point with that is so are a lot of the other activities we engage in regularly, and I think the difference here we are just not used to seeing this kind of activity in wrestling. To bring back my matball example and put it another way....I would venture to guess the risk of serious injury in that game is higher than what (it appears) they were doing here. Yet we consider that a right of passage in the wrestling world. We play with no training at all. Here’s a ball, here’s a couple rules, now go mangle each other. It’s just my opinion the outcry is more about our level of familiarity than the level of risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not missing that point at all, I understand what you are saying. My point with that is so are a lot of the other activities we engage in regularly, and I think the difference here we are just not used to seeing this kind of activity in wrestling. To bring back my matball example and put it another way....I would venture to guess the risk of serious injury in that game is higher than what (it appears) they were doing here. Yet we consider that a right of passage in the wrestling world. We play with no training at all. Here’s a ball, here’s a couple rules, now go mangle each other. It’s just my opinion the outcry is more about our level of familiarity than the level of risk.

I wrestled for ten years and have never heard of matball, yet alone consider it a right of passage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...