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and I have a hard time seeing anyone proving that wrong!

Really? How about the buzz and life this year that Lee created for Iowa fans? How about the recruiting bump a team gets for having a generational stud doing his thing on the biggest stage?

 

You think Iowa fans would have been happy with a possible 5th place finish with no champs when you have a guy on the bench that’s clearly a stud?

 

Can’t prove it but, I’m sure the Hawkeye wrestling club got a few more boosters and money coming into the program now that they see a dominating wrestler that can bring other kids to the party

 

 

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Be clear at least. I didn't say it was a bad thing just for Lee. I thought it was bad for Iowa. Taking 3rd instead of 5th(they would have still taken 5th easily) was not worth using up a year of Lee, in my opinion. That opinion has not changed, and I have a hard time seeing anyone proving that wrong!

Can you admit that the exposure of Lee and what he did at NCAA’s helped jump start Iowa’s recruiting momentum?

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Be clear at least.  I didn't say it was a bad thing just for Lee.  I thought it was bad for Iowa.  Taking 3rd instead of 5th(they would have still taken 5th easily) was not worth using up a year of Lee, in my opinion.  That opinion has not changed, and I have a hard time seeing anyone proving that wrong!

 

 

I remember it as both, the team thing and the individual thing. If I recall you believed he'd win 4 titles if he red shirted, but risked not winning as a true freshman if the shirt was pulled. Lots of folks said the shirt being burned would result in him winning AND Iowa getting a lot of excitement poured into their program.

 

There is no doubt the Free the Lee movement was well placed and that your position was short sighted at best. 

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Can you admit that the exposure of Lee and what he did at NCAA’s helped jump start Iowa’s recruiting momentum?

Would Lee have not created that exact same exposure this season?  It's not like their recruiting bumped up in any way this past season as a result.  Did they benefit from it last year?  Absolutley.  Would they have ended up with the same amount of benefits in the long run?  I absolutely think so.

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I remember it as both, the team thing and the individual thing. If I recall you believed he'd win 4 titles if he red shirted, but risked not winning as a true freshman if the shirt was pulled. Lots of folks said the shirt being burned would result in him winning AND Iowa getting a lot of excitement poured into their program.

 

There is no doubt the Free the Lee movement was well placed and that your position was short sighted at best. 

You remember it wrong then.  Just because I said he was more at risk of not winning that year doesn't change the fact that I wanted him for 4 years of legitimate chances to win a team title.  Let's not forget, the RISK was a justified concern.  He did lose to NaTo just a week and a half earlier.  Take the team title aspect away and I would have been fine with him wrestling.  And once I heard that they did it for Lee first AND NOT the team, I backed off(Feel free to go to HR and sift through).

 

Admittedly, I would have liked him shirting just for a chance to catch Cael.  I also thought the same for Hall.  PSU didn't absolutely need him to win it all and his only career loss would now be to Valencia.

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You remember it wrong then.  Just because I said he was more at risk of not winning that year doesn't change the fact that I wanted him for 4 years of legitimate chances to win a team title.  Let's not forget, the RISK was a justified concern.  He did lose to NaTo just a week and a half earlier.  Take the team title aspect away and I would have been fine with him wrestling.  And once I heard that they did it for Lee first AND NOT the team, I backed off(Feel free to go to HR and sift through).

 

Admittedly, I would have liked him shirting just for a chance to catch Cael.  I also thought the same for Hall.  PSU didn't absolutely need him to win it all and his only career loss would now be to Valencia.

 

 

This is an example of you not admitting when you are wrong.

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This is an example of you not admitting when you are wrong.

Ok, lets say this.  98% of my focus was on the team implications and 2% was his individual results.

 

 

If you get a 98% on a test, does that 2% make you wrong?  If so, I will gladly admit I am wrong.............

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Ok, lets say this.  98% of my focus was on the team implications and 2% was his individual results.

 

If you get a 98% on a test, does that 2% make you wrong?  If so, I will gladly admit I am wrong.............

 

 

You redshirting Lee would not have been a 98% result, so your lack of comprehension of the import of Iowa getting Lee to HAMMER his way thru NCAA's and then getting a pretty big recruiting bump means you are still wrong and still unable to admit to such.

 

Why don't you go over to Hawkeye Report and tell everyone there that Iowa made a mistake last year with Spencer Lee. See what the reaction is. Maybe then you'll realize the simplicity of it all. Three words. "I was wrong". Just own it. 

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You redshirting Lee would not have been a 98% result, so your lack of comprehension of the import of Iowa getting Lee to HAMMER his way thru NCAA's and then getting a pretty big recruiting bump means you are still wrong and still unable to admit to such.

 

Why don't you go over to Hawkeye Report and tell everyone there that Iowa made a mistake last year with Spencer Lee. See what the reaction is. Maybe then you'll realize the simplicity of it all. Three words. "I was wrong". Just own it. 

What impact on recruiting?  Who did they get that they wouldn't have?  Cass and Brands were already locked in.  As far as this year goes, I like Kennedy and Assad a ton, but they are still right in the range of Iowa standard recruits.

 

I stand FIRM that Iowa would have benefited more by Lee starting his career this season.  But, Lee wanted to go right away and I respect that.  He definitely proved he was able to.

 

Also, I won't argue with HR guys on that.  Like most diehard fans, they don't have patience.  They want the best product they can have NOW.  I get it.  I just don't agree with it.

 

I just don't think the short term benefits of last year would have outweighed the next 4 years.  Unless, you believe a 5th place finish would have just crippled Iowa in everyone's eyes and Lee blitkrieging the field this year along with a 2nd place team finish wouldn't bounce them right back to where they are now.   I have a hard time believing that...........

Edited by MSU158

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You redshirting Lee would not have been a 98% result, so your lack of comprehension of the import of Iowa getting Lee to HAMMER his way thru NCAA's and then getting a pretty big recruiting bump means you are still wrong and still unable to admit to such.

 

Why don't you go over to Hawkeye Report and tell everyone there that Iowa made a mistake last year with Spencer Lee. See what the reaction is. Maybe then you'll realize the simplicity of it all. Three words. "I was wrong". Just own it. 

And you don't understand that he would generate the exact import this season, while still having 4 legitimate chances to win a team title.........

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Who is the next team in line to challenge points wise? Am I selling somebody short.

without digging into last years results just going off memory..

 

I know PSU lost Retherford but

Ohio state loses Nato/Jordan/Snyder

Can't think of Iowa losing an key cogs? but they were just soo far back

And Cornell/NCState/Vtech just don't have the depth to break 100 points

I think it's between OSU and Iowa with tOSU taking 4th.

 

NC State and Cornell need one more year to be considered part of the conversation.

 

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I need to add this in before the season starts. (based on nothing but observation)

I think Teasdale quits college wrestling, he may bounce around and come back but, feel a quit.

His talent is amazing, he's been a star for forever.... yadda yadda yadda.

Every interview, every match I see, his body language is "I hate this".

Don't know him personally, don't know his goals, or his off the mat comments, just when I see kids who love the battle, then I see him.... he just doesn't have that... spark.

 

#MyRidicPrediction

 

I see a Gulibon like career.

 

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I totally support pish's Aaron Brooks prediction. Aaron wins 184 weight class in 19-20 season.

 

Obviously it's a lot tougher to pick somebody who will win rather than saying they wont. However, because that's the post that was made, I'll respond. Aaron Brooks will have no shot at winning the NCAA as a true freshman at 184 and that's assuming that he even is at 184.

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It's the basic lack of understanding that gets tiresome.

 

And, although I don't care either way, it's the total lack of any objectivity. I hate to say this because this board is not for politics but just like the guy said earlier their fans are like a certain political party. If you disagree with them you're another ****ing *******, racist, Etc.

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Obviously it's a lot tougher to pick somebody who will win rather than saying they wont. However, because that's the post that was made, I'll respond. Aaron Brooks will have no shot at winning the NCAA as a true freshman at 184 and that's assuming that he even is at 184.

Have you seen him wrestle?

 

 

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Obviously it's a lot tougher to pick somebody who will win rather than saying they wont. However, because that's the post that was made, I'll respond. Aaron Brooks will have no shot at winning the NCAA as a true freshman at 184 and that's assuming that he even is at 184.

Brooks will be the best pure athlete in the field.

 

Why no shot?

 

Let me amend this post. Zahid. If Zahid is at 184 it is his weight. I will take Aaron Brooks against anyone else.

Edited by TBar1977

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And, although I don't care either way, it's the total lack of any objectivity. I hate to say this because this board is not for politics but just like the guy said earlier their fans are like a certain political party. If you disagree with them you're another ****ing *******, racist, Etc.

You can disagree with me all you want and I won't be calling you any of those names. I am a free speech guy. Not in that party thst wants to shut the other side up because they can't win the battle of ideas.

Edited by TBar1977

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Brooks will be the best pure athlete in the field.

 

Why no shot?

 

Let me amend this post. Zahid. If Zahid is at 184 it is his weight. I will take Aaron Brooks against anyone else.

Agreed.

 

I do think Venz, Dean and Parker are all solid and young. They will be very good in two years. I’m sure there will be a couple other guys who make the jump before then too.

 

I’d still say Brooks takes it unless Zahid is there. The reports out of the world team camp suggest he is next level. We will see how much he has progressed in two weeks at junior worlds. Even Zahid didn’t win junior world gold, so even for brooks it won’t be a cakewalk.

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Agreed.

 

I do think Venz, Dean and Parker are all solid and young. They will be very good in two years. I’m sure there will be a couple other guys who make the jump before then too.

 

I’d still say Brooks takes it unless Zahid is there. The reports out of the world team camp suggest he is next level. We will see how much he has progressed in two weeks at junior worlds. Even Zahid didn’t win junior world gold, so even for brooks it won’t be a cakewalk.

I should have made one caveat when I picked Brooks to win next year.

 

If he’s at Zahids weight I pick Zahid. Only guy I can see beating Zahid is Hall or possibly Martin if Zahid bumps up

 

 

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