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hammerlockthree

JO nagging Retherford

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The defense of being a "brand" who "markets" oneself is rather ridiculous and pathetic.

I think JO's tweets calling out Zain were silly, but your post has hypocrisy written all over it. You work for Penn St and the university, like all schools nowadays, is a relentless brand marketer. That benefits you financially in ways JO can only dream of.

 

I don't like his message, but he has every right to make it as far as I am concerned, even if his motive is financial.

Edited by TBar1977

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I have experience in marketing as well, although I haven’t been in the workforce as long.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

You make an interesting point about whether money should be the focal point, however I don’t think this is the right question to ask.

 

Practically, wrestling isn’t powerful enough to change this, so we should rely on the proven models used by every other successful sport in the US and focus on revenue. Granted, there are boundaries. I don’t think we should allow any rule or process to be broken/not followed for the sake of short term revenue.

 

If you stop focusing on driving revenue, we will never consistently see the level of athlete we want in the sport. We also will lose our best wrestlers to other sports/careers (see John Smith, Ben Askren, Darian Caldwell, Aaron Pico, big Neil, etc)

 

We know that one of the solutions that will work is compensation, so why not focus on that? What downsides are there that are so bad they are worth risking the future of our sport?

 

I am a HUGE fan of compensating our wrestlers.  I am a HUGE fan of the league concept that's upcoming.  What I am not a fan of are all the "negative" by-products that typically is carried along with the increase in "professionalism".  

 

The NFL, MLB, and NBA are rife with "corruption".  Owners... staff... players... drugs... violence... etc.  Wrestling, albeit is a much smaller community, hasn't "really" had to deal with the Aaron Hernandez, Ray Lewis, Johnny Manziel, Dennis Rodman, Barry Bonds, type of "crap".  The UFC is seeing it with a few of their stars.  I worked most recently in professional sports, and have been on the side of the table where these elements are discussed, but also, plans as to how to monetize and/or diffuse (brush under rug) are made.  The scariest bit? The monetization "ask".  "How do we monetize the fact that star player/athlete XYZ has done this outrageous thing?" 

 

that was an actual topic that I participated in at my former employer. THAT is what I don't want.  

 

So... when I speak of the "evils" of marketing (ironically), I speaketh of this.  Some call it "business"... I call it an ethical nightmare.  I do NOT want wrestling to embrace the "negative" components of individual's behaviors and attitudes.  Instead, we should be marketing and promoting the Kyle Snyder's, Jordan Burroughs, and Spencer Lee's of the world.  They're humble.  They're elite.  They're representative of our sport, and the positive role model persona's they exude.  

 

In the 1980's... the worst thing in baseball that was spoken about was a "Pine Tar Home Run" from George Brett.  In today's game, the worst things associated with the sport are domestic violence, drugs, PED's, and divisive politics.  Without a moral compass on the marketing, and when the almighty $$$ is kept in the centre of the universe, it's the sensationalism that supposedly draws the viewership/participation... and I think this unspoken assumption is DEAD WRONG.

 

Nearly all professional sports viewership and fandom are at decade-low levels.  There's a reason for this... and it's because they've drifted away from their core for the almighty dollar.

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I am a HUGE fan of compensating our wrestlers.  I am a HUGE fan of the league concept that's upcoming.  What I am not a fan of are all the "negative" by-products that typically is carried along with the increase in "professionalism".  

 

The NFL, MLB, and NBA are rife with "corruption".  Owners... staff... players... drugs... violence... etc.  Wrestling, albeit is a much smaller community, hasn't "really" had to deal with the Aaron Hernandez, Ray Lewis, Johnny Manziel, Dennis Rodman, Barry Bonds, type of "crap".  The UFC is seeing it with a few of their stars.  I worked most recently in professional sports, and have been on the side of the table where these elements are discussed, but also, plans as to how to monetize and/or diffuse (brush under rug) are made.  The scariest bit? The monetization "ask".  "How do we monetize the fact that star player/athlete XYZ has done this outrageous thing?" 

 

that was an actual topic that I participated in at my former employer. THAT is what I don't want.  

 

So... when I speak of the "evils" of marketing (ironically), I speaketh of this.  Some call it "business"... I call it an ethical nightmare.  I do NOT want wrestling to embrace the "negative" components of individual's behaviors and attitudes.  Instead, we should be marketing and promoting the Kyle Snyder's, Jordan Burroughs, and Spencer Lee's of the world.  They're humble.  They're elite.  They're representative of our sport, and the positive role model persona's they exude.  

 

In the 1980's... the worst thing in baseball that was spoken about was a "Pine Tar Home Run" from George Brett.  In today's game, the worst things associated with the sport are domestic violence, drugs, PED's, and divisive politics.  Without a moral compass on the marketing, and when the almighty $$$ is kept in the centre of the universe, it's the sensationalism that supposedly draws the viewership/participation... and I think this unspoken assumption is DEAD WRONG.

 

Nearly all professional sports viewership and fandom are at decade-low levels.  There's a reason for this... and it's because they've drifted away from their core for the almighty dollar.

Sports TV viewership has nothing to do with morals.  Viewership is down because TV viewership and cable subscriptions are down.  Overall revenue in pro sports is record breaking across the board. 

 

I wish that poor morals resulted in a downturn but it does not.  Character is not rewarded in the slightest when it comes to marketing and money.  Mike Trout is starting the peak of what might be the best individual baseball career of all-time and every measurable metric has him as virtually unknown in America.  Kenneth Faried is an average NBA player and Faried is as well know as Trout.  Trout's high character and closed mouth cannot overcome his lack of controversy.  You can keep claiming sensationalism doesn't sell, but it's an empty claim.  

Edited by boconnell

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Sports, especially individual ones, really do need/benefit from "Heels".  Many fans tune into boxing matches or other events solely hoping to see a certain participant lose.  Wrestling just has so little of this because College is the final stop for 99% and we don't really vilify kids at that level.  Plus, a vast majority in the sport were taught to use the box phrase answers for everything.  Humility and NO EXCUSES.  Rinse-Repeat.

 

At this point, I don't know that switching to that type of "sensationalism" would draw fans.  But, I don't see it hurting.  

 

As an aside,  I don't think sports viewership is really affected by "the almighty dollar".  It really comes down to the fact that we now have a million, bizillion things we can do with our time and, as a result, sports are no longer pastimes.  When the pro sports were at their apex, many people still didn't have tv's, Netflix, computers, video games and smart phones.  That doesn't even mention instagram, facebook and twitter.

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Sports TV viewership has nothing to do with morals.  Viewership is down because TV viewership and cable subscriptions are down.  Overall revenue in pro sports is record breaking across the board. 

 

I wish that poor morals resulted in a downturn but it does not.  Character is not rewarded in the slightest when it comes to marketing and money.  Mike Trout is starting the peak of what might be the best individual baseball career of all-time and every measurable metric has him as virtually unknown in America.  Kenneth Faried is an average NBA player and Faried is as well know as Trout.  Trout's high character and closed mouth cannot overcome his lack of controversy.  You can keep claiming sensationalism doesn't sell, but it's an empty claim.  

 

On the contrary... I am suggesting that sensationalism IS what sells, and it shouldn't be that way.  I agree with you wholeheartedly about Trout.  Look at Tebow.  Goes 15-1 for Denver in his only only season (or something to that effect), and "they" then said he didn't have talent?

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I am a HUGE fan of compensating our wrestlers. I am a HUGE fan of the league concept that's upcoming. What I am not a fan of are all the "negative" by-products that typically is carried along with the increase in "professionalism".

 

The NFL, MLB, and NBA are rife with "corruption". Owners... staff... players... drugs... violence... etc. Wrestling, albeit is a much smaller community, hasn't "really" had to deal with the Aaron Hernandez, Ray Lewis, Johnny Manziel, Dennis Rodman, Barry Bonds, type of "crap". The UFC is seeing it with a few of their stars. I worked most recently in professional sports, and have been on the side of the table where these elements are discussed, but also, plans as to how to monetize and/or diffuse (brush under rug) are made. The scariest bit? The monetization "ask". "How do we monetize the fact that star player/athlete XYZ has done this outrageous thing?"

 

that was an actual topic that I participated in at my former employer. THAT is what I don't want.

 

So... when I speak of the "evils" of marketing (ironically), I speaketh of this. Some call it "business"... I call it an ethical nightmare. I do NOT want wrestling to embrace the "negative" components of individual's behaviors and attitudes. Instead, we should be marketing and promoting the Kyle Snyder's, Jordan Burroughs, and Spencer Lee's of the world. They're humble. They're elite. They're representative of our sport, and the positive role model persona's they exude.

 

In the 1980's... the worst thing in baseball that was spoken about was a "Pine Tar Home Run" from George Brett. In today's game, the worst things associated with the sport are domestic violence, drugs, PED's, and divisive politics. Without a moral compass on the marketing, and when the almighty $$$ is kept in the centre of the universe, it's the sensationalism that supposedly draws the viewership/participation... and I think this unspoken assumption is DEAD WRONG.

 

Nearly all professional sports viewership and fandom are at decade-low levels. There's a reason for this... and it's because they've drifted away from their core for the almighty dollar.

Lighten up, Francis.

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Lighten up, Francis.

 

So when one feels strongly about a particular topic, they are to lighten up?  

 

So... when one doesn't take your advice or heed your words of wisdom, they are "wrong"? 

 

The very act of posting those words means that I elicited some type of emotional response... one strong enough for your to attempt to negate my argument with your phrase.  Which... if you accept this premise, means that you were also amped up enough to respond... so... in turn...

 

Lighten up, Francis.  

 

We all have our opinions and perspectives.  Feel free to disagree... but this is an open forum where ideas and thoughts are openly and freely shared.  

 

In the words of every trash Jerry Springer guest... "You don't know me!"  ;-)

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On the contrary... I am suggesting that sensationalism IS what sells, and it shouldn't be that way.  I agree with you wholeheartedly about Trout.  Look at Tebow.  Goes 15-1 for Denver in his only only season (or something to that effect), and "they" then said he didn't have talent?

Tebow went 9-7 with a playoff win to make it 10-7.  The team won a super bowl a few years after getting rid of him so you can't argue.  Whether another team could have used him is up for debate.  

 

I also think sensationalism shouldn't sell.  Ali was brash but he worked super hard and backed it up.  We have entered an era where being brash without backing it up still pays better than backing it up with your mouth closed. I also think Ali was genuine vs a created media persona.  Most of the guys who do this today just made the calculated decision that a heel turn would benefit their wallet.  Fake trash talk is embarrassing and the only thing more embarrassing is the fans who eat up the obviously fake storylines created by fake feuds.  

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I didn’t negate anything. You just come off as someone who takes him or herself far too seriously especially when you talk about 80’s baseball and that the worst thing was pine tar. Baseball in the 80s was rife with cocaine and speed usage coupled with anabolic steroids, gambling, rampant misogyny and womanizing (just read the accounts of those who played). Athletes now are the same as they ever were there are just a thousand more ways for the person behind the player to be revealed.

Edited by wrestlingphish

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I don't know much but I do know this;  Before these texts and this forum thread I really wouldn't care all that much about this match up.  Now I am kind of wanting to see it sooner.........

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wow, I'm glad you know so much about me?  I really know little compared to all of you on here but it's not a lie or an argument.

 

I'm sorry my response was so obnoxious but I have trouble believing any random and disinterested people were pulled into the wrestling fanbase by Olivers childish and entitled gibberish. 

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On the contrary... I am suggesting that sensationalism IS what sells, and it shouldn't be that way.  I agree with you wholeheartedly about Trout.  Look at Tebow.  Goes 15-1 for Denver in his only only season (or something to that effect), and "they" then said he didn't have talent?

 

Tebow couldn't throw the ball to save his life. There's a reason he's not in the NFL now and is trying baseball on for size.

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Did JO graduate and if he did, was the degree in an area of value?

 

He graduated with a PhD in Biochemical Engineering (4.0 GPA), earned in 3.5 years.

 

Or something like that....

Edited by TobusRex

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I am a HUGE fan of compensating our wrestlers.  I am a HUGE fan of the league concept that's upcoming.  What I am not a fan of are all the "negative" by-products that typically is carried along with the increase in "professionalism".  

 

The NFL, MLB, and NBA are rife with "corruption".  Owners... staff... players... drugs... violence... etc.  Wrestling, albeit is a much smaller community, hasn't "really" had to deal with the Aaron Hernandez, Ray Lewis, Johnny Manziel, Dennis Rodman, Barry Bonds, type of "crap".  The UFC is seeing it with a few of their stars.  I worked most recently in professional sports, and have been on the side of the table where these elements are discussed, but also, plans as to how to monetize and/or diffuse (brush under rug) are made.  The scariest bit? The monetization "ask".  "How do we monetize the fact that star player/athlete XYZ has done this outrageous thing?" 

 

that was an actual topic that I participated in at my former employer. THAT is what I don't want.  

 

So... when I speak of the "evils" of marketing (ironically), I speaketh of this.  Some call it "business"... I call it an ethical nightmare.  I do NOT want wrestling to embrace the "negative" components of individual's behaviors and attitudes.  Instead, we should be marketing and promoting the Kyle Snyder's, Jordan Burroughs, and Spencer Lee's of the world.  They're humble.  They're elite.  They're representative of our sport, and the positive role model persona's they exude.  

 

In the 1980's... the worst thing in baseball that was spoken about was a "Pine Tar Home Run" from George Brett.  In today's game, the worst things associated with the sport are domestic violence, drugs, PED's, and divisive politics.  Without a moral compass on the marketing, and when the almighty $$$ is kept in the centre of the universe, it's the sensationalism that supposedly draws the viewership/participation... and I think this unspoken assumption is DEAD WRONG.

 

Nearly all professional sports viewership and fandom are at decade-low levels.  There's a reason for this... and it's because they've drifted away from their core for the almighty dollar.

 

I actually agree with most of this post.  I don't know about compensating amateur athletes, but that's just because I haven't done the proper research to have a valid opinion.  In the 1980's they also did not have the means of communication that we have now.  We hear about some of these awful behaviors of sports "stars" because of our ability to find information at the speed of light.  I would argue that Sport Star behavior hasn't changed much in the past few decades, (drug use, alcohol, domestic violence, gambling etc.) but rather the ability to access information on these athletes has become easier.

 

On the other hand, our weird obsession with celebrity life and reality tv and all that jazz in America has made tv reporters eager to jump on any negative story they can find.  Could be this reason why we hear almost on a daily occassion every misstep of each athlete.  

 

Meh, my two cents.

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