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If you are Zahid Valencia....

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Strategically.....who do you want to wrestle the most? Or the least if your that kind of guy....

 

Mark Hall at 174?

 

Myles Martin at 184?

 

As an tOSU fan, I would not disagree with anyone who said Mark Hall is a better wrestler than Myles Martin. But that doesn’t answer this question appropriately.

 

Hall is a known commodity to Zahid, and I think he knows if he can match Hall’s quickness on the mat he can outhorse him. I’m not saying he has Hall’s number or anything, but he did pull away from Hall a little bit the last time they wrestled under the big lights.

 

Martin is the unknown. He’s extremely athletic, and will be stronger than Hall. Not quite the mat wrestler as Hall, in fact that’s not even close probably. But Martin is elite on his feet.

 

I think Zahid beats both Martin at ‘84 and Hall at ‘74. I’m just not sure which one he prefers.

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I would pick Martin. It just seems that Martin is prone to throw out some clunkers from time to time. Hall you have to go out and beat because he won't beat himself. I think Martin from time to time can beat himself.

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Zahid killed Martin in freestyle on the feet

 

I like Martin. He keeps jumping levels. He way outperformed expecatations freshman and sophomore year. Junior year he matched them but also added a ton of bonus.

 

Zahid is on another level than almost everyone. I think he would easily beat Bo too (meaning he would never be close to losing, not that he would tech him or something).

 

Hall does present some problems for Zahid stylistically and via familiarity. Zahid is less likely to win at 174 than 184 for this reason, but would be a heavy favorite in both.

 

I’d prefer Zahid at 184

1. To see new matchups. Zahid is a rare talent and I want to see him against more top level guys in folk while we still can

2. Or better prepares him for making the Olympics. Unless he plans on getting down to 163, his only other option is 189. Wrestling at 174 this season, even if he isn’t huge for the weight, means he can’t put on the bulk he will need in the trials for 2020. He is an underdog to Jden and Taylor (who I’m assuming go 86kg in 2020). Without the size he has very little chance against them. With it, you never know.

3. With Anthony redshirting, it doesn’t hurt the team for him to bump up this year. He needed to by next season at the latest anyways. It also allows Anthony time during his redshirt to put on 5 pounds of muscle so he can go try to win a title at 174 next year. Norfleet will be annoyed but I think he can do well at 197

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I think Zahid vs Martin they are the same size, but Zahid is the better wrestler. I think Zahid vs Hall they are the same caliber wrestler, but Zahid is 10lbs bigger on a Saturday night. Zahid wins either way.

This is simply not true. Zahid walks around around 178 from what I understand. Hall said he can’t make 163 for freestyle, and that was a year ago.

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This is simply not true. Zahid walks around around 178 from what I understand. Hall said he can’t make 163 for freestyle, and that was a year ago.

 

 

I know what people say. You can either trust that or your own eyes. OK, this is where anyone who wants to pummel me for disbelieving what they claim to be fact. Lol. 

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I know what people say. You can either trust that or your own eyes. OK, this is where anyone who wants to pummel me for disbelieving what they claim to be fact. Lol.

I WILL FIGHT YOU

 

I agree that the Zahid rumors seem crazy but it has been verified by people I trust who are close to the ASU program. Granted that’s not proof.

 

Hall himself said he can’t make 163. Honestly though I have to assume he tries to in the trials for 2020. He has virtually no shot at winning 86kg. He is a super talent and it’s crazy that he may not make a world team until he is 26 or older.

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I WILL FIGHT YOU

 

I agree that the Zahid rumors seem crazy but it has been verified by people I trust who are close to the ASU program. Granted that’s not proof.

 

Hall himself said he can’t make 163. Honestly though I have to assume he tries to in the trials for 2020. He has virtually no shot at winning 86kg. He is a super talent and it’s crazy that he may not make a world team until he is 26 or older.

 

 

I am only discussing 174 at NCAA's. I don't think Zahid is anywhere near 174 on Saturday night. Some guys bodies just re hydrate and get bigger more quickly and Zahid seems to fall into that category while Hall seemingly does not. 

 

Martin might beat Zahid but he'd have to win a position I don't think he can even get to with Zahid. Once they start scrambling this will be all Zahid, imo. 

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I am only discussing 174 at NCAA's. I don't think Zahid is anywhere near 174 on Saturday night. Some guys bodies just re hydrate and get bigger more quickly and Zahid seems to fall into that category while Hall seemingly does not.

 

Martin might beat Zahid but he'd have to win a position I don't think he can even get to with Zahid. Once they start scrambling this will be all Zahid, imo.

I don’t think Martin scores an offensive point on Zahid

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I agree with Housebuye's point above.  
 

If I were Zahid, I would be using this time and this opportunity to pack on the weight, allowing me to compete effectively the next two years at 86kg.  If Zahid, and all the amazing skills he has, only has two options, and 74kg is WAY too small, he realistically only has one option, and that is 86kg.  

 

So... given that he has beaten Martin every single time they've wrestled, Zahid should graciously move to 184, and win his next two NCAA championships with relative ease at that weight.  Other than Martin, and maybe Reenan, there is really no one else that can hang over the next two years.  

 

Also, I don't believe... for a minute, that Mark Hall cannot make 74kg.  He "looks" like a 157 for pete's sake!  

 

So.. "if I were Zahid..."  184... all day every day.

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If I'm Zahid, I want Martin.   He's got 1 NCAA champ on his list of NCAA finals wins over NCAA champs and adding Martin to it would be appealing to me.     If there was a way to match up against a 3rd NCAA champ in the final for his senior year, I'd be looking to pull that off.       And I don't mean beating guys who would one day win an NCAA title, I mean beating guys who are already NCAA champs.  

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This is simply not true. Zahid walks around around 178 from what I understand. Hall said he can’t make 163 for freestyle, and that was a year ago.

I believe this info came from a Zahid interview, but wrestlers often lie about walk-around weight.  There was an actual weigh-in from a FS tournament 2 years ago and Zahid was over 190.  Just double checked and he weighed 87.5 (193) for Dave Schultz in January 2016. 

 

 

Also, Track weight certs have been entered for much of the ASU roster.  At minimum, he weighed 184.1 for his cert (but not above 197). 

Edited by LemonPie

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Well for someone like me who does not have all the facts, this is kind of a complicated issue. I say that because I don't know if Zahid is done filling out or not. It may just be that he may be able to continue wrestling at 174, and 79 Kg, far into the future. Kyle Dake (27) who is currently sitting at 79 Kg., but what will he do in 2020? Does Dake move down and try and dethrone JB at 74? Or does he stay at 79, and wait a few months and try his hand at UWW's World Championships held for the weight classes not contested in the Olympics. Also with Kyle being 27, how much longer do we see him compete. In the meantime we have to see what Zahid wants to do, does he take a run at Dake, or does he add on some muscle weight and go up to 86, and take on J'Den and DT. Looking at Zahid's frame, I would suspect that he will eventually fill out more and move to 86. And if that's the case, I think he should start the process now, so that he can get used to his own weight and conditioning issues, as well as dealing with the heavier wrestlers.

Now I know this is a college weight class question but, I added this other stuff because I feel that Zahid has asperations of not only being a great college wrestler, but someone who has World and Olympic asperations as well, and I think these asperations are also influencing his decision(s), on what course he sets out for himself.

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I think Bo Nickal is moving to 197 to get his own jump on the 86Kg freestyle weight class. This makes sense. Likewise, Zahid too should move up to 184. I don't think he'd be that successful if he tries to make a big jump late in the 2020 game, and I don't see how he could ever get to 74Kg so that's out. 

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Zahid killed Martin in freestyle on the feet

 

I like Martin. He keeps jumping levels. He way outperformed expecatations freshman and sophomore year. Junior year he matched them but also added a ton of bonus.

 

Zahid is on another level than almost everyone. I think he would easily beat Bo too (meaning he would never be close to losing, not that he would tech him or something).

 

Hall does present some problems for Zahid stylistically and via familiarity. Zahid is less likely to win at 174 than 184 for this reason, but would be a heavy favorite in both.

 

I’d prefer Zahid at 184

1. To see new matchups. Zahid is a rare talent and I want to see him against more top level guys in folk while we still can

2. Or better prepares him for making the Olympics. Unless he plans on getting down to 163, his only other option is 189. Wrestling at 174 this season, even if he isn’t huge for the weight, means he can’t put on the bulk he will need in the trials for 2020. He is an underdog to Jden and Taylor (who I’m assuming go 86kg in 2020). Without the size he has very little chance against them. With it, you never know.

3. With Anthony redshirting, it doesn’t hurt the team for him to bump up this year. He needed to by next season at the latest anyways. It also allows Anthony time during his redshirt to put on 5 pounds of muscle so he can go try to win a title at 174 next year. Norfleet will be annoyed but I think he can do well at 197

For the team, him and Norfleet both moving up probably helps. Belshay looked last year like a RS year might help him this year.  At 165, does that mean its either Petersen or Ulrey with Anthony sitting out? I would like to see Shields at 157 again until maybe Teemer?? fills the weight next year.

Edited by gobraves101905

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I think Bo Nickal is moving to 197 to get his own jump on the 86Kg freestyle weight class. This makes sense. Likewise, Zahid too should move up to 184. I don't think he'd be that successful if he tries to make a big jump late in the 2020 game, and I don't see how he could ever get to 74Kg so that's out.

Is that the only reason you’d like to see him move up? He still has another year at 79 kg before 2020. Edited by Billyhoyle

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I think Zahid vs Martin they are the same size, but Zahid is the better wrestler. I think Zahid vs Hall they are the same caliber wrestler, but Zahid is 10lbs bigger on a Saturday night. Zahid wins either way. 

Frankly this is same tripe that a certain fan base always seems to spew when their guy ends up on the losing end. First it was Kyle Dake, then Bo Jordan and now Zahid Valencia.. probably a few others I missed. It's complete nonsense. There are rules, everyone knows what they are and can make choices. There is no "unfair" advantage.

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Frankly this is same tripe that a certain fan base always seems to spew when their guy ends up on the losing end. First it was Kyle Dake, then Bo Jordan and now Zahid Valencia.. probably a few others I missed. It's complete nonsense. There are rules, everyone knows what they are and can make choices. There is no "unfair" advantage.

Who ever said anything about an unfair advantage? Point that out for us.

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