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Aviator12

If you are Zahid Valencia....

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A big knock against the NCAA champion at heavyweight is he has nothing from the top position.  

 

Nada, zero, zilch, niet.      

 

Last season Ohio State needed a big points output or a fall from Snyder in order to knock off Penn State.     The PSU heavyweight is no slouch, but Snyder was the 2 time defending champ.    So how did that one play out?    

 

Snyder tried and tried, he huffed and puffed, he left it all out there, even ending up on his back and nearly pinned for his efforts, but he just did not have the offense to rack up points via the turn and back exposure.    He's essentially a take down and let him go guy.    ZERO mat wrestling and it proved costly as Penn State was able to keep things to a regular decision and win the dual.    

 

That's the best NCAA wrestler in America?   I saw the Lee boy rack up all sorts of points at NCAA's via the turn and he has a ways to go before we call him the best.   Outscored Snyder in team points at the same tournament.    Nolf, same thing.     Even with a bum wheel.     Retherford?   We're talking the 2 time Hodge winner and that's during an era where they seem to mostly be getting that award correct, finally.    How does he do it?   You got it, a punishing top game.   But I'm to believe we rank Snyder higher despite having no top game?  No mat game?     Essentially a 1 dimensional wrestler who beats up on the fat guys and is pushed to the brink or beaten by the more athletic heavies?    Come on!  

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This is like comparing Dake and Taylor (before they wrestled and Dake made it clear). Valencia (or Snyder for last year) is Dake. Nolf is Taylor. Do we measure "best" by most dominant of their avg. opponent, or capable of beating the higher level wrestlers? 

Edited by Eagle26

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This is like comparing Dake and Taylor (before they wrestled and Dake made it clear). Valencia (or Snyder for last year) is Dake. Nolf is Taylor. Do we measure "best" by most dominant of their avg. opponent, or capable of beating the higher level wrestlers? 

 

 

Who claims Nolf isn't able to beat higher caliber wrestlers? He beat Hidlay and TF Micah on one leg. 

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A big knock against the NCAA champion at heavyweight is he has nothing from the top position.

 

Nada, zero, zilch, niet.

 

Last season Ohio State needed a big points output or a fall from Snyder in order to knock off Penn State. The PSU heavyweight is no slouch, but Snyder was the 2 time defending champ. So how did that one play out?

 

Snyder tried and tried, he huffed and puffed, he left it all out there, even ending up on his back and nearly pinned for his efforts, but he just did not have the offense to rack up points via the turn and back exposure. He's essentially a take down and let him go guy. ZERO mat wrestling and it proved costly as Penn State was able to keep things to a regular decision and win the dual.

 

That's the best NCAA wrestler in America? I saw the Lee boy rack up all sorts of points at NCAA's via the turn and he has a ways to go before we call him the best. Outscored Snyder in team points at the same tournament. Nolf, same thing. Even with a bum wheel. Retherford? We're talking the 2 time Hodge winner and that's during an era where they seem to mostly be getting that award correct, finally. How does he do it? You got it, a punishing top game. But I'm to believe we rank Snyder higher despite having no top game? No mat game? Essentially a 1 dimensional wrestler who beats up on the fat guys and is pushed to the brink or beaten by the more athletic heavies? Come on!

How did Nolf or Lee do at World's?

 

Did they watch the event together?

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Who claims Nolf isn't able to beat higher caliber wrestlers? He beat Hidlay and TF Micah on one leg.

 

No one claims that. My statement was meant to be read as who can beat the higher level opponent between the two. As in Nolf can beat Hidlay, but Zahid can beat Deiringer. Do you think Nolf could beat someone of that caliber who has placed in tough senior international events? I guess it's possible but there is no evidence to suggest that and personally I doubt it at this point.

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No one claims that. My statement was meant to be read as who can beat the higher level opponent between the two. As in Nolf can beat Hidlay, but Zahid can beat Deiringer. Do you think Nolf could beat someone of that caliber who has placed in tough senior international events? I guess it's possible but there is no evidence to suggest that and personally I doubt it at this point.

Didn't Nolf multiple times come within 1 pt of Green? Has he not beaten I Mar? How about Kulchisky?

 

I am not knocking Zahid, he's great. Nolf is also great. And my comment was made that MSU was correct regarding Nolf being the best college wrestler, but Lee and Zahid are also great college wrestlers. So is Bo Nickal.

Edited by TBar1977

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To this day Nolf has wrestled in how many freestyle events in his life? Maybe 3? The fact he is even close is amazing.

 

His NCAA folkstyle prowess is fairly obvious. The only 2 guys I can see threatening Nolf for most dominant are Bo Nickal and/or Spencer Lee.

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To this day Nolf has wrestled in how many freestyle events in his life? Maybe 3? The fact he is even close is amazing.

 

His NCAA folkstyle prowess is fairly obvious. The only 2 guys I can see threatening Nolf for most dominant are Bo Nickal and/or Spencer Lee.

Zahid too. Guy has 1 loss in college and has a high bonus rate. If he HOA his bonus rate slightly he is right there.

 

Lee might have guys like Fix slow him down (picking Lee, but maybe not by bonus)

 

Bo is a favorite at 197, but the Moore match is at least interesting. Moore tends to beat Martin in the room, so it isn’t a mismatch at least.

 

Nolf doesn’t have anybody to really challenge him though. Honestly wouldn’t be shocked by a 100% bonus rate if he stays healthy. It is unlikely. I don’t think it has ever happened. Even Taylor was 2 matches off I think.

Edited by Housebuye

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3 world titles for Lee as far as I can recall. Nor sure on Nolf. Why do you ask?

Oh cmon. You are comparing Lee’s world titles to Snyder’s? Lee is amazing, but senior worlds isn’t comparable to cadet and juniors, especially at weights that don’t exist in seniors

 

Oh wait you are trolling. Never mind.

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Zahid too. Guy has 1 loss in college and has a high bonus rate. If he HOA his bonus rate slightly he is right there.

 

Lee might have guys like Fix slow him down (picking Lee, but maybe not by bonus)

 

Bo is a favorite at 197, but the Moore match is at least interesting. Moore tends to beat Martin in the room, so it isn’t a mismatch at least.

 

Nolf doesn’t have anybody to really challenge him though. Honestly would’ve be shocked by a 100% bonus rate if he stays healthy. It is unlikely. I don’t think it has ever happened. Even Taylor was 2 matches off I think.

 

Great post, housebuye.

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Oh cmon. You are comparing Lee’s world titles to Snyder’s? Lee is amazing, but senior worlds isn’t comparable to cadet and juniors, especially at weights that don’t exist in seniors

 

Oh wait you are trolling. Never mind.

 

No I'm not making any comparison.  That would be silly.    Bringing up what juniors and cadets and what they did at freestyle worlds in an NCAA wrestling discussion is mostly not relevant but none the less, the question was raised regarding Lee and Nolf.   Nothing about a comparison to Snyder was mentioned anywhere.   You've got to be trolling here or you're slow today.    

Edited by Cletus_Tucker

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On 9/17/2018 at 11:00 AM, Aviator12 said:

Strategically.....who do you want to wrestle the most? Or the least if your that kind of guy....

 

Mark Hall at 174?

 

Myles Martin at 184?

 

As an tOSU fan, I would not disagree with anyone who said Mark Hall is a better wrestler than Myles Martin. But that doesn’t answer this question appropriately.

 

Hall is a known commodity to Zahid, and I think he knows if he can match Hall’s quickness on the mat he can outhorse him. I’m not saying he has Hall’s number or anything, but he did pull away from Hall a little bit the last time they wrestled under the big lights.

 

Martin is the unknown. He’s extremely athletic, and will be stronger than Hall. Not quite the mat wrestler as Hall, in fact that’s not even close probably. But Martin is elite on his feet.

 

I think Zahid beats both Martin at ‘84 and Hall at ‘74. I’m just not sure which one he prefers.

it's a tough out regardless, Martin and Hall were both champs as true freshman if i'm not mistaken, Martin in 16 won it all in 17 took 5th, Hall in 17 won it and in 18 took second, so Zahid will no doubt have his hands full which ever weight he goes for the 2018-2019 season good luck to all three this upcoming season.... as for what Zahid prefares i will go out on the limp and say he doesn't care he will be gamed and ready to go no matter what.

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