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Jordan Burroughs: Jim Thorpe

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Agreed in that it's a "no".  

 

a.) There's no good way to make this measurement

b.) Thorpe's ascendance was marked by an environment where both collegiate and professional versions of the sport were still relative "unknowns".  It would take 40 more years before the modern day NFL was even formed... and that's a stretch. 

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Thorpe owned almost any major sport he touched. Definitely ahead of his time. He did help to make professional sports an interest, but unfortunately he never was about to fully capitalize on it.

Edited by MadMardigain

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Our growth in popularity has infinitely more to do with access them any one individual. (The internet)

 

Wrestling specific media outlets to tell the stories and show the matches to a wrestling audience. Elsewhere in these boards old matches of Dave Schultz that are previously unseen by most of us are generating a buzz at the moment and I can't help but think he would have matched if not surpassed JB in popularity if he had the modern promotional machine behind him. Probably same could be said for the likes of John Smith, KJ, or big Bruce from the same era.

Edited by JHRoseWrestling

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2 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

This is a horrible comparison because Thorpe is defined by the diversity of his achievement, right? 

He is by some, but in a football documentary I watched they went on and on about Thorpe being the beginning of professional football receiving the same amount of respect as college football. 

I think Burroughs is the beginning of the USA caring more about international styles than folkstyle. I may be wrong in this new era beginning, and I may be off base with my Thorpe comparison, but I think there is merit in it though I am not sure, so I brought it to the board. 

I feel like the amount of college wrestlers talking about freestyle in Oct-Jan is twenty times larger than what it used to be, but this is hard to measure with twitter and social media being "new." 

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On 9/22/2018 at 7:35 PM, treep2000 said:

Agreed in that it's a "no".  

 

a.) There's no good way to make this measurement

b.) Thorpe's ascendance was marked by an environment where both collegiate and professional versions of the sport were still relative "unknowns".  It would take 40 more years before the modern day NFL was even formed... and that's a stretch. 

Could we measure it by the amount of posts on themat.com? When the international board evens up with college? Could we measure it by flowrestling's amount of coverage taking into account that college has twenty times more matches...

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36 minutes ago, jcjcjc said:

Could we measure it by the amount of posts on themat.com? When the international board evens up with college? Could we measure it by flowrestling's amount of coverage taking into account that college has twenty times more matches...

Or we could add up every US based freestyle tournament's attendance numbers and compare them to the attendance for college wrestling.  Or even just compare something like Bill Farrell (the top non championship event in US Freestyle?) to something like a home dual for Iowa or PSU.  

Or we could look at US viewers for the NCAA national championships vs the US viewers for the US open (or even US viewers for World championships).

Freestyle wrestling is awesome right now and has it's best rules in decades.  Team USA is awesome and a blast to watch.  It's the absolute peak of our sport.  But you're living make believe if you think it has as many fans as college wrestling.  

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If the Olympic wrestling docket were held in Iowa City or State College, I think attendance and attention could approach NCAAs. Worlds would not. World Cup did not. Olympic qualifying wasn't quite there either. Outside of that, it's hard to imagine any freestyle event approaching the notoriety of college wrestling in the current climate.

JC, I do wonder, though, if there isn't some truth to Burroughs helping some of us diehards onto the freestyle bandwagon in terms of it feeling equally or even more compelling year-round compared to NCAAs.

I was in a cafe in Khartoum, Sudan, in 2012 trying desperately to keep a good wifi signal watching his matches and losing my mind over every clutch takedown. I've seen all the big freestyle events ever since and I was only a casual world-level freestyle fan before, so I know the sentiment you're getting at.

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21 hours ago, boconnell said:

Or we could add up every US based freestyle tournament's attendance numbers and compare them to the attendance for college wrestling.  Or even just compare something like Bill Farrell (the top non championship event in US Freestyle?) to something like a home dual for Iowa or PSU.  

Or we could look at US viewers for the NCAA national championships vs the US viewers for the US open (or even US viewers for World championships).

Freestyle wrestling is awesome right now and has it's best rules in decades.  Team USA is awesome and a blast to watch.  It's the absolute peak of our sport.  But you're living make believe if you think it has as many fans as college wrestling.  

I agree with your thoughts, and thanks for adding more than a "NO" or a Madison-like Monologue that can be seen below (keep reading though!)

I am not saying that international has as many fans as college. I had an idea that Burroughs would be a signal of international wrestlings increase in popularity. (To the best of my knowledge) the NFL didn't overtake college football in popularity during Thorpe's career, but the NFL has used him as a turning point in documentaries. )

I think Jordan Burroughs is as popular as college wrestlers. I think the international wrestlers in the future will be talked about as much as college athletes. I seem to hold the minority opinion, but that might be because of my wording and/or reality. 

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1 hour ago, jcjcjc said:

I agree with your thoughts, and thanks for adding more than a "NO" or a Madison-like Monologue that can be seen below (keep reading though!)

I am not saying that international has as many fans as college. I had an idea that Burroughs would be a signal of international wrestlings increase in popularity. (To the best of my knowledge) the NFL didn't overtake college football in popularity during Thorpe's career, but the NFL has used him as a turning point in documentaries. )

I think Jordan Burroughs is as popular as college wrestlers. I think the international wrestlers in the future will be talked about as much as college athletes. I seem to hold the minority opinion, but that might be because of my wording and/or reality. 

I agree 100% that Burroughs is as popular than any college wrestler.  The fans in College wrestling like individual wrestlers but are fans of teams.  Most Jason Nolf fans are really PSU fans and would cheer against him if his singlet was black and gold.  Jordan Burroughs fans are fans of Jordan Burroughs (even when they live in Tehran).  I think it's honestly sad that international wrestling fans have an easier time rooting across national lines than college fans rooting across college lines.

I would call JB and Snyder the most popular wrestlers in America by a wide margin and it's due to their international success.  

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On 10/1/2018 at 7:30 PM, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

My favorite Thorpe anecdote:

Jim Thorpe won the first Olympic decathlon, which was inaugurated at the 1912 Games in Stockholm, Sweden.  The gold medal was presented to him by King Gustav of Sweden who said:  "Sir, you are the greatest athlete in the world!" 

Thorpe replied: "Thanks, King."

LOL  I remember this story.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe

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On 10/2/2018 at 9:55 PM, boconnell said:

I agree 100% that Burroughs is as popular than any college wrestler.  The fans in College wrestling like individual wrestlers but are fans of teams.  Most Jason Nolf fans are really PSU fans and would cheer against him if his singlet was black and gold.  Jordan Burroughs fans are fans of Jordan Burroughs (even when they live in Tehran).  I think it's honestly sad that international wrestling fans have an easier time rooting across national lines than college fans rooting across college lines.

I would call JB and Snyder the most popular wrestlers in America by a wide margin and it's due to their international success.  

"I think it's honestly sad that international wrestling fans have an easier time rooting across national lines than college fans rooting across college lines."

That's a big time insight. Familiarity breeds contempt. 

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