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russelscout

What's it going to be flo?

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After Fix and Gable lost I see Willie running to the team's defense, curbing expectations, and point out what a great success the tourney is for team USA.

 

This is in response to fan criticism, but how many times has Willie accused fans of being fuddy duddies for not being ok with his harsh criticisms? How many times have the words "big boy sport" been thrown around by these guys to get fans to be ok with their criticisms of coaches and athletes.

 

I don't have a problem with that, but doesn't this seem to be a time where a big boy sports fan base wouldn't be ok with not winning it all? When my Vikings didn't win the nfc title last year I didn't say, "Turns out nfc title games are hard."

 

USA Wrestling is better than they were 10 years ago, yes, but I think most expected Fix and Gable to repeat and a few surprise performances. We had the surprise performances, but our guys who had been rock solid did not repeat. Should we really be celebrating what a success this tournament was? If so, that's a bitter pill to swallow.

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After Fix and Gable lost I see Willie running to the team's defense, curbing expectations, and point out what a great success the tourney is for team USA.

 

This is in response to fan criticism, but how many times has Willie accused fans of being fuddy duddies for not being ok with his harsh criticisms? How many times have the words "big boy sport" been thrown around by these guys to get fans to be ok with their criticisms of coaches and athletes.

 

I don't have a problem with that, but doesn't this seem to be a time where a big boy sports fan base wouldn't be ok with not winning it all? When my Vikings didn't win the nfc title last year I didn't say, "Turns out nfc title games are hard."

 

USA Wrestling is better than they were 10 years ago, yes, but I think most expected Fix and Gable to repeat and a few surprise performances. We had the surprise performances, but our guys who had been rock solid did not repeat. Should we really be celebrating what a success this tournament was? If so, that's a bitter pill to swallow.

After reading this I have no idea if you're mad they were jerks in the past or mad they weren't jerks this time.  

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I like this post because it fosters critique of Flo (not necessarily criticism of Flo) and because it mentions the 'big-boy sports' nonsense. I'm not sure though if I like the ideas in the post itself. I say Flobros ought to chill-out with the 'big-boy sports' nonsense. Big-boy sports calls for big-boy coverage, big-boy journalism, big-boy marketing. Not just Instagram fill-in-the-blanks.

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After reading this I have no idea if you're mad they were jerks in the past or mad they weren't jerks this time.

 

I'm not mad about anything. Just pointing out his stance on fan criticism is in contrast with what he and others have said in the past, especially during college season.

 

If anything, hearing a media outlet like flo be unafraid to criticize Usawrestling in the same way they do college programs would be refreshing rather than hear what a great tournament we had. It certainly doesn't feel that way to me and appearantly not many other fans either.

Edited by russelscout

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"media outlet" lol

 

Social media? Tabloid media? Amateur media? No-female-staffers-in-public-facing-roles media outlet? Though to be fair it is indeed plausible that Flo's recruited females, only to come up dry. Would you want to see, in person, those Flobros every day?

Edited by jon

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"media outlet" lol

 

Social media? Tabloid media? Amateur media? No-female-staffers-in-public-facing-roles media outlet? Though to be fair it is indeed plausible that Flo's recruited females, only to come up dry. Would you want to see, in person, those Flobros every day?

They do have some female “personalities” in some of their other sports verticals. Maybe another cycle or two before we have a female retire from international competition that would be interested in joining the staff. Edited by MadMardigain

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Maybe they are just being honest.

 

I don’t think this is anything to worry about. Gable got caught. It happens. He will be better for it.

 

Fix has some holes to fill, but junior worlds is tough. It’s not like he lost to a bad wrestler.

 

We still placed 2nd in the world. Azerbaijan and Iran had solid teams too. We didn’t have all of our starters and still came home with 5 medals, 3 finalists and a champion.

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Their response to Gable and Fix could be that they're both still teenagers, full-time students, and not yet getting paid to compete. IDK that was the first thing I thought of...if it were seniors I think the story is different.

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20 hours ago, russelscout said:

After Fix and Gable lost I see Willie running to the team's defense, curbing expectations, and point out what a great success the tourney is for team USA.

 

This is in response to fan criticism, but how many times has Willie accused fans of being fuddy duddies for not being ok with his harsh criticisms? How many times have the words "big boy sport" been thrown around by these guys to get fans to be ok with their criticisms of coaches and athletes.

 

I don't have a problem with that, but doesn't this seem to be a time where a big boy sports fan base wouldn't be ok with not winning it all? When my Vikings didn't win the nfc title last year I didn't say, "Turns out nfc title games are hard."

 

USA Wrestling is better than they were 10 years ago, yes, but I think most expected Fix and Gable to repeat and a few surprise performances. We had the surprise performances, but our guys who had been rock solid did not repeat. Should we really be celebrating what a success this tournament was? If so, that's a bitter pill to swallow.

Didn't Gable say he was the best age group wrestler there?

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7 hours ago, Jon_Kozak said:

Their response to Gable and Fix could be that they're both still teenagers, full-time students, and not yet getting paid to compete. IDK that was the first thing I thought of...if it were seniors I think the story is different.

I get that they are younger, but going into this it has sounded like a fix and gable gold were foregone conclusions. Their losses are definitely news. It is weird and inconsistent that flo would just blow it off as "worlds are tough, no biggie". Maybe I have too high of expectations for team USA. It has been said repeatedly that this is the beginning of a golden age of USA wrestling. My idea of a golden age is not losing to Russia. 

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Lol.

there's a difference between hoping we'd win worlds and and acting shocked, searching for answers, reevaluating talent, etc - when we didn't.

y'all know we weren't 'supposed' to win, right?

we won last year by a point and RUS had the same # of placers.

we won  took 2nd Cadets  last year with RUS having 5 in the finals and 7 medalists.

i saw posts that stated it was a disappointment - which is categorically not true. 

was it surprising that Daton lost? that Gable lost? sure. but it's worlds. losses happen. and despite that, we put up the second most points a JR team ever did.

with two backups and a FS rookie (Mekhi). 

we didn't finish worse than expected and i'm not trying to 'curb expectations'. if your expectation was that we'd win again, that was your error. I figured we be 3rd or 4th.

Daton lost one. Gable lost one. is that 'letting us down'?

collectively, we did better than expected. unless you're gonna tell me you had Elam and Mekhi both making finals.

A second point (and what was the actual impetus of the tweet) - was that I read some posts saying maybe the breaks should be pumped on the expectations for Gable and Daton.

I don't know what the future holds for either. but i think it's positively silly to suggest they get knocked down a rung b/c they lost a match at JR Worlds. 

so don't assign my tweet as a contradiction; it's rather a better/more realistic perspective going into and coming out of JRS than what y'all must have had. 

Edited by Husker_Du

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2 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

Lol.

there's a difference between hoping we'd win worlds and and acting shocked, searching for answers, reevaluating talent, etc - when we didn't.

y'all know we weren't 'supposed' to win, right?

we won last year by a point and RUS had the same # of placers.

we won Cadets last year with RUS having 5 in the finals and 7 medalists.

i saw posts that stated it was a disappointment - which is categorically not true. 

was it surprising that Daton lost? that Gable lost? sure. but it's worlds. losses happen. and despite that, we put up the second most points a JR team ever did.

with two backups and a FS rookie (Mekhi). 

we didn't finish worse than expected and i'm not trying to 'curb expectations'. if your expectation was that we'd win again, that was your error. I figured we be 3rd or 4th.

Daton lost one. Gable lost one. is that 'letting us down'?

collectively, we did better than expected. unless you're gonna tell me you had Elam and Mekhi both making finals.

A second point (and what was the actual impetus of the tweet) - was that I read some posts saying maybe the breaks should be pumped on the expectations for Gable and Daton.

I don't know what the future holds for either. but i think it's positively silly to suggest they get knocked down a rung b/c they lost a match at JR Worlds. 

so don't assign my tweet as a contradiction; it's rather a better/more realistic perspective going into and coming out of JRS than what y'all must have had. 

Ok. The USA was supposed to lose, but gable and daton definitely were supposed to win. I think everyone expected it and you downplay it like it's nothing. If that's not curbing expectations I don't know what is. 

Yes Elam and Mekhi made the finals, but our two defending champs did not and Warner didn't win a match. Many thought he would do better than he did. What did you expect if this is better?

How should this not make people pump the breaks on expectations? You flo boys picking Gable as the champ and hodge contender because he won the daktronics open last year? 

 

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6 hours ago, russelscout said:

He may have. And maybe he is, but he certainly didnt show up at at these worlds. Maybe an honest discussion for why our "locks" didn't repeat is in order.

I found it.  I originally read it on UWW's website last week:

https://unitedworldwrestling.org/article/steveson-still-improving-after-three-world-titles

The 18-year-old will wrestle Saturday, with the potential to wrestle in Sunday night's 125kg gold-medal bout, in what may be his last age-level match ever. 

“I’m shooting for six (world titles), but with Tokyo 2020 right around the corner, I plan on bumping up to the senior-level next year and making USA's world team,” said Steveson. "I’m always looking ahead, and looking ahead means the 2020 Olympic Games. That’s a big goal for me, an Olympic gold." 

Ending, on Wednesday night, Steveson stood behind the entry tunnel and watched Russia’s Aleksanr KOMAROV win his fourth age-level world title. But that didn’t change Steveson’s mind as to who's the most dominant age-level wrestler in the world. When asked his thoughts regarding who holds the No. 1 spot for world dominance, Steveson’s gave a one-word answer, “Me.” 

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Jordan Burroughs dnp'd in Rio. came back the next year and won worlds.

The Patriots made the Super Bowl and are currently 1-2.

McDonough went 1-2-1-DNP

US JR Team won title in 2017 and took 2nd in 2018 with a couple unexpected losses and a bunch of unexpected wins.

idk what else to tell you. sometimes wrestlers/athletes/teams lose.

if you want to reduce your expectations for Team USA or Gable or Daton go ahead.

but we were expected to take 2nd/3rd/4th and we took 2nd. 

did we have an opportunity to seize gold? sure.

but anyone saying 2nd place was a disappointment doesn't know enough. 

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I appreciate Willie's thoughtful remarks here. Nice to read substantive stuff. Much better than 'big-boy sports' catchphrase, endless snark, fill-in-the-blanks amateur efforts.

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9 hours ago, Husker_Du said:

Jordan Burroughs dnp'd in Rio. came back the next year and won worlds.

The Patriots made the Super Bowl and are currently 1-2.

McDonough went 1-2-1-DNP

US JR Team won title in 2017 and took 2nd in 2018 with a couple unexpected losses and a bunch of unexpected wins.

idk what else to tell you. sometimes wrestlers/athletes/teams lose.

if you want to reduce your expectations for Team USA or Gable or Daton go ahead.

but we were expected to take 2nd/3rd/4th and we took 2nd. 

did we have an opportunity to seize gold? sure.

but anyone saying 2nd place was a disappointment doesn't know enough. 

When Jordan lost there was no doubt it was an underperformance. No one, including Jordan, dismissed it as the Olympics are tough. Fans dared to be critical of his performance. People used that as a reason for why he may not make the team against Dake, until Burroughs proved otherwise.

Patriots lose in the super bowl and I doubt their fans are saying, welp super bowl is tough, we weren't expected to win at the beginning of the year, all good.

Daton and Gable lose and you cannot be critical of them or team USA. You get on fans for doing so. You refuse to re-evaluate what you have put out in the world in the past about these two. Essentially you pretend like this event didn't happen except for the unexpected positives. In any other sport, when are major events not supposed to change fans and media's expectations? That imo gives Jr worlds little value and you would not have the same attitude if Gable didn't place at ncaas.

Yes sometimes wrestlers lose, but it seems like your take is that bc of that we shouldn't consider those losses and only appreciate the positives. 

Edited by russelscout

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