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Next OSU Coach

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31 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Interesting that no one has commented or even replied to this rationale....

I have no idea about most of it but I will say the racial aspect is 100% not true. We've had black HCs in multiple sports dating back to the 80s. 

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The race factor rings false to me.  But my only experience with Oklahoma is Oklahoma City.  I don't know what the small towns are like for stuff like that (worse than big cities obviously).   I also have no idea what the boosters make up is at OSU.  I have no personal connection to the program at all.  

But as was mentioned, the school has had plenty of black HCs and OSU as many great black wrestlers as any program.  Nothing tells me that would be any more of an issue there than anywhere else.  But again I have zero first hand knowledge.  

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19 hours ago, wrestlingnerd said:

Tobus, It’s actuslly the exact opposite. Do you know how many NY state champs want to go to Cornell in part because of Dake? He has an enormous following in his home state (and beyond). Yianni and Vito were multi-state champs from NY who committed to Cornell early in their decision making process in part due to Dake and what he achieved at Cornell. 

Dake would be a huge recruiting draw for the Cowboys and give them a shot in the arm recruiting, especially in the Northeastern states. 

I don't doubt Dake has fans, I've already said I'm a fan of his wrestling style. But the fact of the matter is Cornell is one of the best colleges in the USA and has never had a problem attracting studs well before Dake got there.

I'm not sure Dake would take to Stoolwater  Stillwater. Places like Stillwater are tough on Yankees.

 

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2 hours ago, boconnell said:

The race factor rings false to me.  But my only experience with Oklahoma is Oklahoma City.  I don't know what the small towns are like for stuff like that (worse than big cities obviously).   I also have no idea what the boosters make up is at OSU.  I have no personal connection to the program at all.  

But as was mentioned, the school has had plenty of black HCs and OSU as many great black wrestlers as any program.  Nothing tells me that would be any more of an issue there than anywhere else.  But again I have zero first hand knowledge.  

OSU has had "plenty" of black coaches? That's certainly news to me. The only one I remember was Bob Simmons in football, and he was fired after five years.

I don't think the students are racist, or the coaches. I think the Alumni are though, and the older they are probably the more racist they are. Gotta keep those rich old guys happy if you want the money to keep coming in. They might give a black multi world champ a shot, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Edited by TobusRex

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31 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

OSU has had "plenty" of black coaches? That's certainly news to me. The only one I remember was Bob Simmons in football, and he was fired after five years.

I don't think the students are racist, or the coaches. I think the Alumni are though, and the older they are probably the more racist they are. Gotta keep those rich old guys happy if you want the money to keep coming in. They might give a black multi world champ a shot, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I absolutely don't doubt the racism of wealthy old men, but the current Men's Basketball coach at OSU is Black, and he holds a much bigger job and answers to WAY more donors than the wrestling coach, and the donors he answers to are every bit as old and white.  

Edited by boconnell

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On 10/9/2018 at 9:08 PM, boconnell said:

Not only would they...they already did it when they hired their last coach.  Except he was mid-20s.  And still actively competing.

But the landscape of college wrestling has changed quite a bit since the late 80's/early 90's.  In addition, the PC culture as well as the litigiousness of the nation is drastically different.  Big powerhouse programs cant take even small gambles.  They think liability and finances first.  This is why Mark Schultz cant come within a mile of coaching a big program.

 

Only incredibly intelligent and risky AD's are going to realize that they may have to take some lumps in the beginning to take a shot at getting a guy who could pan out to be a Cael, so that another program wont lock the guy up for the next 20 years as he builds a dynasty. 

 

Personally, I am with others on this board who think just about all of the current top freestylers (1-2 spots) would eventually make incredible coaches.  However, being a college coach, having 2 of my coaches go on to be college AD's, I understand the risk vs reward mentality that goes into choosing a coach at a huge powerhouse program.  Some upstart program or lower tier program can take substantially higher risks with a head coach than a storied program in a premier athletic college that wasnt directly mentored by the current regime of coaches.

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40 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

OSU has had "plenty" of black coaches? That's certainly news to me. The only one I remember was Bob Simmons in football, and he was fired after five years.

I don't think the students are racist, or the coaches. I think the Alumni are though, and the older they are probably the more racist they are. Gotta keep those rich old guys happy if you want the money to keep coming in. They might give a black multi world champ a shot, but I wouldn't bet on it.

There current basketball coach is black and the fans and donors love him. By the way he is the second black HC OSU has had in basketball. OSU was one of the first schools in the conference to hire black HCs in basketball and football. 

I have zero idea if they would ever consider Jordan to take over. I do know the color of his skin would play zero role in the decision. 

Personally, I don't think Jordan would get a look because he is not an OSU guy. Right or wrong OSU has a lot of proven, successful DI coaches out there and I'm sure they will go with someone like Coleman, Branch, Pop or an internal guy. 

Edited by osufan12
added thoughts

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2 hours ago, osufan12 said:

There current basketball coach is black and the fans and donors love him. By the way he is the second black HC OSU has had in basketball. OSU was one of the first schools in the conference to hire black HCs in basketball and football. 

I have zero idea if they would ever consider Jordan to take over. I do know the color of his skin would play zero role in the decision. 

Personally, I don't think Jordan would get a look because he is not an OSU guy. Right or wrong OSU has a lot of proven, successful DI coaches out there and I'm sure they will go with someone like Coleman, Branch, Pop or an internal guy. 

 

I don't watch bball, so my bad on the bball coach. Yeah, it's a lot bigger money sport than wrestling, but there is a huge difference. That difference is the overwhelming majority of good HS bball players in the country are black. Wrestling is the opposite. So I could see an old racist geezer supporting hiring a black coach if he thinks he can drag in the talented black kids (because the team wouldn't be competitive without them), but wrestling isn't utterly dominated by black kids so no "need" to get a black coach for recruiting, if you get my gist. SO kinda and apple/oranges type thing from that perspective. 

I don't have any skin in this issue. I just hope OSU hires somebody good when Smith retires.

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They-- and everyone else-- would want to hire someone like Cael, a superstar wrestler who is also a head coach. The problem is there is no one like that. The closest thing might be the guy they got. So do you hire a proven coach like Pop or a star wrestler like Dake (who is at least more charismatic than Cael. But who isn't?)   

I don't think that hiring Dake or Burroughs or Snyder would be like Alabama hiring Cam Newton. Wrestling coaches are always former star competitors. Many top football coaches played college ball at a low level. Some didn't play at all. Very few were stars.

 

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On 10/10/2018 at 11:57 AM, Plasmodium said:

Are any Okies going to dispute TR's rationale for overlooking JB?   

 

knowing the idiots   political slant it would be an exercise in futility. I would hope that the other posters on this board would have the intelligence to see through his idiocy.

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Both sides make valid points here... coaching is definitely a different skill set than wrestling and there is usually a learning curve. However, most elite wrestlers that have good character will be able to make themselves great coaches even if it takes a little time. Success principles hold true for different endeavors. A great, experienced coach that wasn’t a great wrestler can’t change their name or go back in time and make themselves an Olympic champ to entice recruits. Like it or not many recruits want that star power. So I think it is worth the risk if you can get a very elite wrestler. Which three coaches have created the biggest dynasties of the modern era? Gable, Smith, and Sanderson. What do they have in common? They were all THE biggest name in wrestling of their time. Guys like Burroughs or Snyder have that advantage if they choose to commit to coaching. If you don’t hire them someone else will, so you may have to take the risk and hire them young. 

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