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MSU158

Micah Jordan

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7 hours ago, pish6969 said:

 

and you don’t think Tan Tom and his antics have nothing to do with that?

 

We clown but no one there disrespects their wrestlers.

 

99 out of 100x it’s in response to something Tan Tom did or said. The other 1 time is when Snyder said hes coming and bringing hell with him after Nolf was ruled out and then couldn’t deliver the bonus

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What antics? Wrestling coaches get highly competitive, but Tom Ryan seems to be one of the more level headed ones out there.  

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9 hours ago, Idaho said:

So part of the fan base creates the realistic expectation to produce more than 2 AA finishes and less than 19 losses over 3 years? Hmmmm not sure that qualifies as the overall expectation when words like “part of a fan base” and “certain people on this board” create the entire narrative. 

You need a refresher course on the Internet. Group X makes a bold claim that does not come to fruition and Group Y, their corrollary,  does what?

 

A. Says nothing

B. Claim Group X over played their hand

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Imbeciles have feelings too.I was just joking around a little.  I haven't seen the rampant name calling you mention. I've seen noodle arms, gay giraffe, big head this guy, this guy needs sports bra, but that wasn't  all on the same board. You never saw tom have a fit?  Must I? Must I? Feel like I just got scolded by Margaret Thatcher .

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15 hours ago, MSU158 said:

Which was only really shown in THOSE matchups(and a few with Sorenson)................

So it comes up every time against the 3 best wrestlers he's faced the last 2 seasons.  Seems relevant to why he can't beat the best wrestlers he faces.  

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41 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

Let's assume Micah at 149 as I think most agree that's best chance to individual title. How do you see him doing against guys like Ashnault and Kolodzik when in down position?

While I wouldn't consider either of those guys hammers on top, riding time is probably in play if Micah ends up on bottom.  

We should learn a lot about 149 at CKLV... that field could have: (#2) Jordan (#3) Ashnault (#8) Thomsen (#10) Finesilver (#11) Thorn (#12) Degen (#13) Maruca (#14) Blees (#15) O'Connor (#16) Heil (#19) Prince (#20) Sprague (NR) Amine

 

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

So it comes up every time against the 3 best wrestlers he's faced the last 2 seasons.  Seems relevant to why he can't beat the best wrestlers he faces.  

All of whom will be 4x AA's(one of which he had a win against), two of which will most likely be 3x champs and, quite possibly, top 10 wrestlers of ALL TIME.

 

Should your career in ANYTHING be mainly based on how you did against the absolute best in your field?  I am pretty sure you can be anywhere from very good to just plain average at something, but look like a complete novice against the very best.  Simply put,  Retherford made pretty much everyone look bad on bottom(Collica probably the least) and that includes a 4x NCAA Champ!

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I think the criticism has been a result of and exasperated by the fact that he was brutalized by Zain and Nolf, and not just worked.  Micah Jordan isn't good on bottom.  I don't think that's a stretch.  He's a good wrestler, though.  He is pretty damn good on his feet and he's solid on top.  It's just the way he was brutalized by Zain and Nolf coupled with the fact that he was as blue chip of a recruit as you get.  You just don't expect a guy with his high school credentials to lose like he has.  Ohio is one of the elite HS wrestling states in the country.  He was a 4X state champ who had three falls and a tech in the finals.  He was the #6 P4P recruit in the country.  I don't expect those guys to get beat like he did against Zain and Nolf.  

Maybe that's a credit to how good Zain and Nolf are, though.  Micah has plenty of wins against other really good guys, though.  Although I'm still waiting for Micah to beat a truly elite guy in college.  Neither Sorenson nor Kemmerer have shown they are elite guys.  

I think these are the reasons he gets criticized like he does.

 

Now, I think 149lbs is his best weight.  149lbs also cleared out a bit this year and I think Micah is the favorite to win the title at that weight.  He's definitely good enough to do so.

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

All of whom will be 4x AA's(one of which he had a win against), two of which will most likely be 3x champs and, quite possibly, top 10 wrestlers of ALL TIME.

 

Should your career in ANYTHING be mainly based on how you did against the absolute best in your field?  I am pretty sure you can be anywhere from very good to just plain average at something, but look like a complete novice against the very best.  Simply put,  Retherford made pretty much everyone look bad on bottom(Collica probably the least) and that includes a 4x NCAA Champ!

You seem to be implying Micah is just as good on bottom as Logan Stieber or Brandon Sorenson. I would disagree. 

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2 hours ago, MSU158 said:

All of whom will be 4x AA's(one of which he had a win against), two of which will most likely be 3x champs and, quite possibly, top 10 wrestlers of ALL TIME.

 

Should your career in ANYTHING be mainly based on how you did against the absolute best in your field?  I am pretty sure you can be anywhere from very good to just plain average at something, but look like a complete novice against the very best.  Simply put,  Retherford made pretty much everyone look bad on bottom(Collica probably the least) and that includes a 4x NCAA Champ!

If you want to determine if Micah Jordan is a very good college wrestler then don't measure him against the absolute best.  Of course there is no discussion or debate about whether Micah Jordan is a very good college wrestler.  He will likely be a 3X AA who was a huge part of very good teams.  

So if you want to have an already finished discussion about whether he's very good, then measure him against everyone except the absolute best and stop there.  If you want to continue the discussion then measure him against the absolute best and include those 3.  If you do that it becomes pretty clear that issues on bottom hold him back against the absolute best.  

Just like if I want to measure OSU against everyone except PSU, Iowa, and tOSU then they have no issues as a team.  If I include those 3 then OSU has some serious issues as a team even though they are very good.

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4 hours ago, danoftw said:

Imbeciles have feelings too.I was just joking around a little.  I haven't seen the rampant name calling you mention. I've seen noodle arms, gay giraffe, big head this guy, this guy needs sports bra, but that wasn't  all on the same board. You never saw tom have a fit?  Must I? Must I? Feel like I just got scolded by Margaret Thatcher .

Actuallly....yes you must. Please tell me when Tom Ryan threw a fit, let alone a marker at a referee in any sort of rage that embarrassed himself and the sport...which Cael’s incident did to MANY. I’ll wait...

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2 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

You seem to be implying Micah is just as good on bottom as Logan Stieber or Brandon Sorenson. I would disagree. 

Nope, wasn't saying that.  Was simply saying he is downgraded too far due to them.  I am not saying he is a strong bottom wrestler.  I just don't think the data supports his being lambasted and think he would still be a clear favorite over Hayes.

Against every other wrestler but Retherford, Nolf and Sorenson his bottom wrestling has been good enough to win or at least stay in a match.  That includes a LOT of AA's.

Edited by MSU158

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

If you want to determine if Micah Jordan is a very good college wrestler then don't measure him against the absolute best.  Of course there is no discussion or debate about whether Micah Jordan is a very good college wrestler.  He will likely be a 3X AA who was a huge part of very good teams.  

So if you want to have an already finished discussion about whether he's very good, then measure him against everyone except the absolute best and stop there.  If you want to continue the discussion then measure him against the absolute best and include those 3.  If you do that it becomes pretty clear that issues on bottom hold him back against the absolute best.  

Just like if I want to measure OSU against everyone except PSU, Iowa, and tOSU then they have no issues as a team.  If I include those 3 then OSU has some serious issues as a team even though they are very good.

Not sure where our conversation went or how it even relates to my point.  My point was that Jordan's bottom wrestling hasn't hindered him from beating quite a few AA's and even having wins over both Sorenson and Kemerer.  I never said I thought he was EVER at the level of Nolf or Retherford, but I think he has proven that he was at or above just about everyone else in those 2 weight classes.

As far as the issues on bottom against the absolute best goes, pretty much everyone that Nolf and Retherford wrestled have had similar issues.  Even Sorenson had a damn near as solid spiral ride as Tony Nelson.

 

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6 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

You need a refresher course on the Internet. Group X makes a bold claim that does not come to fruition and Group Y, their corrollary,  does what?

 

A. Says nothing

B. Claim Group X over played their hand

You need a refresher in logic, research and also spelling.  A minority group of fans do not create the realistic expectations.  We could do the same for any wrestler on any team. Did any PSU fans claim that Nolf would be a 4x champ? If so, he sure has tanked based on that minority group of fans. 

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47 minutes ago, Idaho said:

You need a refresher in logic, research and also spelling.  A minority group of fans do not create the realistic expectations.  We could do the same for any wrestler on any team. Did any PSU fans claim that Nolf would be a 4x champ? If so, he sure has tanked based on that minority group of fans. 

Micah was #6 P4P coming out of h.s. so it isn't like a minority of Buckeye fans were the only ones that thought very highly of him. The expectations were high for Micah with the wrestling community at large. Plenty of Buckeye fans thought his brother would beat Bo Nickal and this board had multiple threads on that too. 

Penn State fans thought Nolf would be very special. Seems they got that one exactly correct.

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, Aviator12 said:

Actuallly....yes you must. Please tell me when Tom Ryan threw a fit, let alone a marker at a referee in any sort of rage that embarrassed himself and the sport...which Cael’s incident did to MANY. I’ll wait...

Don't wait on me. You like ryan and that's fine. You don't like Cael and that's OK too. How do you feel about the healthy Fft to consultation bracket? Not to argue, I know what I think  about it and won't comment on your take. Just curious. 

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4 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Micah was #6 P4P coming out of h.s. so it isn't like a minority of Buckeye fans were the only ones that thought very highly of him. The expectations were high for Micah with the wrestling community at large. Plenty of Buckeye fans thought his brother would beat Bo Nickal and this board had multiple threads on that too. 

Penn State fans thought Nolf would be very special. Seems they got that one exactly correct.

I'm only working with your comments you have stated, 

"Coming out of high school certain (not all) people on on this board used to say Micah was a better prospect than Nolf"

"Parts of the Ohio State Fan base"

which you can't build a complete narrative out of. But now that you have changed your comments, I wouldn't entirely disagree with you. 

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1 hour ago, MSU158 said:

Wins his wrestle offs 2-1 and 8-2. INCLUDING an escape within 5 seconds of starting down. Again, he is far from Phil Keddy, but his bottom wrestling "issues" have definitely been exaggerated. 

Hayes checked out after the 2nd takedown of the 2nd match. 

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