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MSU158

Micah Jordan

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On 10/19/2018 at 8:50 AM, MSU158 said:

To be CRYSTAL CLEAR.  I have NEVER said Micah is good on bottom.  Simply serviceable.  Choosing his best position BY FAR over bottom doesn't change that.  Especially when doing so in the 2nd period when the score is 0-0.  It is VERY sound strategy.  It basically guarantees a huge portion of the match is wrestled where he has an advantage and forces his opponent to make a decision in the 3rd to either choose bottom or try top.

Now, if his choice is in the 3rd, and his opponent scored a quick escape in the second to be up 1-0, THEN  his decision becomes much more important.

Again, I am not saying Jordan is even a cheap version of Phil Keddy on the mat.  What I AM saying is that his bottom wrestling was proven to be nowhere near an issue against Hayes(as several predicted) and I do NOT believe it will be against anyone at 149 this season.

 

Finally, the other part of my focus on Nolf and Retherford was how they were able to score back points at will.  A few others may have been able to hold him down for substantial time, but how many back points have been scored on him in his career(from starting at the bottom position) by everyone else but those 2?

I remember Alex P sucking him back for Back pts a couple of times last year - that being said I don't think Micah will have the type of trouble on bottom at 149 that he had last year at 157.  He is clearly one of the front runners for the title at 149 and I think he will do fine off the bottom this year.

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On 10/19/2018 at 4:58 PM, hammerlockthree said:

can you be more specific. 

I think I slightly misread the intention of the second portion of your post.  I don't disagree that there are more elite recruits today that come in ready to seriously contend right away.  The vastly improved Cadet/Junior development program probably plays a big role there... plenty of examples to choose from.  

Re: your Moore take, I think it's circular reasoning.  You can just as easily do the same thing for Penn State, Iowa, etc.  If Moore's development is attributable to Snyder, the next logical question would be: "who is Snyder's development attributable to?"  After all, isn't developing the best wrestler in the world more impressive than just taking the #70 recruit and making him a 4x AA and perennial title contender?  

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1 hour ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

I think I slightly misread the intention of the second portion of your post.  I don't disagree that there are more elite recruits today that come in ready to seriously contend right away.  The vastly improved Cadet/Junior development program probably plays a big role there... plenty of examples to choose from.  

Re: your Moore take, I think it's circular reasoning.  You can just as easily do the same thing for Penn State, Iowa, etc.  If Moore's development is attributable to Snyder, the next logical question would be: "who is Snyder's development attributable to?"  After all, isn't developing the best wrestler in the world more impressive than just taking the #70 recruit and making him a 4x AA and perennial title contender?  

Yeah you are certainly correct about the reasoning being circular, here is a perfect example.

Stieber's style has huge problems, and likely they should have been fixed in college (another topic if you'd like), but he is still one of the best college wrestlers ever, and a world champ, So I am using his success as an individual against his program, which doesn't seem quite fair...but regardless I think he would have been more successful at any other elite program.

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On 10/19/2018 at 8:55 PM, JeanGuy said:

Not sure people are hating on tOSU. In this internet age the motto of Ricky Bobby is true to fans. If you're not first you're last. Everybody that doesn't win a championship is a disappointment. So and so was a 4 timer in high school and all he ever did in college was AA four times is a common refrain. We have become a pretty negative culture all in all. Nathan Thomasello went 1,3,3,&3 and that just isn't good enough for fans to say he had a great career. Bo Jordan came in as the next great Buckeye but "only" went 3,3,2,&5. Failure.

Fans love to attack their opponents but overall it is usually good natured. I will say that the wrestling community as a whole is probably more fair to the athletes than fans of other sports are to their stars.

 

Meh, won't see me attacking Ohio State. I hate their school colors (very boring) and can't stand their football team (especially their coach), otherwise it's just another university I don't think about much. Wrestling wise: I have no reason to be jealous/angry with Ohio State. Historically they are nowhere near being on par with OU or OSU, though they are leagues better than OU now and a little better than Okla State. That's not a permanent condition, btw...eventually Ohio State wrestling will drop a few slots to it's "normal" position.

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13 hours ago, hammerlockthree said:

Yeah you are certainly correct about the reasoning being circular, here is a perfect example.

Stieber's style has huge problems, and likely they should have been fixed in college (another topic if you'd like), but he is still one of the best college wrestlers ever, and a world champ, So I am using his success as an individual against his program, which doesn't seem quite fair...but regardless I think he would have been more successful at any other elite program.

Now that is a truly wild take... not sure I'm following how you would use Stieber's success against Ohio State.  If he were any more successful in college, he'd be Cael Sanderson (who happens to be the only wrestler in the history of NCAA competition to score more team points than Logan).  

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Yeah sure. like you said its a weird circular logic.

But here is an example, probably what planted the seed actually. Go back years and watch "The Program" Flo Film on tOSU, Stieber talks about how he used to be run down before making weight skip practice, and just float off the last 5 pounds of weight. If that is true, that staff was incompetent by high school standards. 

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On 10/23/2018 at 9:37 AM, TobusRex said:

 

Meh, won't see me attacking Ohio State. I hate their school colors (very boring) and can't stand their football team (especially their coach), otherwise it's just another university I don't think about much. Wrestling wise: I have no reason to be jealous/angry with Ohio State. Historically they are nowhere near being on par with OU or OSU, though they are leagues better than OU now and a little better than Okla State. That's not a permanent condition, btw...eventually Ohio State wrestling will drop a few slots to it's "normal" position.

Man, do I have to disagree with you about tOSU falling back to "normal".  You are talking about a school with arguably the biggest(funding) Athletic Department in the Nation.  The wrestling team has their full support, a powerful RTC and are wrapping up on a new, stand alone facility:  http://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-wrestl/facilities/jennings-practice-facility/

 

That doesn't even include being located in one of the top 2 states for High School talent and Ryan's proven ability to recruit at nearly the same level as Sanderson.  tOSU, barring some type of scandal, will NOT be going anywhere for the foreseeable future!

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39 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Man, do I have to disagree with you about tOSU falling back to "normal".  You are talking about a school with arguably the biggest(funding) Athletic Department in the Nation.  The wrestling team has their full support, a powerful RTC and are wrapping up on a new, stand alone facility:  http://ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-wrestl/facilities/jennings-practice-facility/

 

That doesn't even include being located in one of the top 2 states for High School talent and Ryan's proven ability to recruit at nearly the same level as Sanderson.  tOSU, barring some type of scandal, will NOT be going anywhere for the foreseeable future!

 

They've ALWAYS had a lot of money though!

For the record I don't foresee Ohio State dropping off the face of the Earth. I think they'll eventually fall back to being a top 5-10 team, kinda like they were before they became a powerhouse. I see the same thing eventually happening to PSU (if Cael leaves!).

Edited by TobusRex

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Just now, TobusRex said:

 

They've ALWAYS had a lot of money though!

For the record I don't foresee Ohio State dropping off the face of the Earth. I think they'll eventually fall back to being a top 5-10 team, kinda like they were before they became a powerhouse.

But, NEVER had it's full support.  Ryan has them positioned way beyond anywhere they have been before.  I am sorry, but they will be a top 5 team for the foreseeable future and will consistently challenge for the top spot.  Again, barring some scandal that directly hurts the team or, worse, truly hurts the Athletic Department they are solidly positioned in the forefront with everyone but PSU and, maybe Iowa/OkState, playing major catch up.

OkState desperately needs to do something about their RTC or they will fall behind.  Honestly, if Smith leaves anytime soon, I could see them falling out of perennial top 5 status.

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