Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
olddirty

Huge mistake in Gilman match - coaches/refs

Recommended Posts

Yeah - I was kinda wondering about that sequence (had a bit of a stutter during the feed as it happened). They showed Perry right after it happened and I thought for sure we'd see him hitting the buzzer but then he just kinda looked around, held up one and then the camera went back to the center of the mat

Edited by Jasonmitchell32

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, olddirty said:

Refs scored a takedown from top to the Turk when Gilman almost got an escape after being scored on.  Perry didnt notice, and the chair approved it.  Cost him a bronze medal

If I am not mistaken in Freestyle if you come back up to your feet you can be pushed out or taken down again - there are no escapes in FS - you have to remember that the concept of "control" that we have in folkstyle does not apply in Freestyle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just rewatched and the scoring makes sense. It is debatable, but I don't think they would have overruled it.

Gilman got exposed trying to counter the single leg. He got back to a defensible position in short offense then attempted a go-behind which the Turk caught with his left arm. As they came up, Gilman tried a half-hearted headlock and got dropped out of bounds for the second two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ching said:

Just rewatched and the scoring makes sense. It is debatable, but I don't think they would have overruled it.

Gilman got exposed trying to counter the single leg. He got back to a defensible position in short offense then attempted a go-behind which the Turk caught with his left arm. As they came up, Gilman tried a half-hearted headlock and got dropped out of bounds for the second two.

This is how I understand it as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, LJB said:

no one with even a rudimentary understanding of the rules would challenge that call...

I think most people, refs included, don't even have a rudimentary understanding of FS rules. I sure as hell don't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they are not complicated... the rule book can be read through in an incredibly short amount of time, which, clearly, most do not...

and i can assure that the refs do in fact have an understanding and that they do talk about the rules ad nauseum... i see so few actual bad/missed calls when watching international wrestling, i am always somewhat surprised when i see a complaint, but, almost always from someone who just doesn't take the time to learn the rules...

with that being said, without a doubt there have been screw jobs in the past, but, that is exclusively political and not out of ignorance...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d have to go watch again, but watching live I thought it should have been 1 point for the step out and not a takedown because it was the same sequence and Gilman did not break contact. I am not sure what the interpretation is though... if they get to their feet can he get another takedown without a true “escape”? I was thinking no and they could only get the step out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My argument is more about the initial exposure.  Now, I only watched it live, so I can't be sure, but it looked like Gilman initiated the first exposure which could have created a 2 for him before the last 2 for Atli.  Or, at worst, a 2-2 on the initial situation before the second 2 for Atli.  Either way, once it was 5-1, it sure looked to me like it was worth a second look......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, olddirty said:

Refs scored a takedown from top to the Turk when Gilman almost got an escape after being scored on.  Perry didnt notice, and the chair approved it.  Cost him a bronze medal

Beware folk style bias, I couldn't see either but i thought he gave an exposure, got to his feet and was brought back down. In a world with no escapes that interpretation works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He got rolled through and the Turk had a body lock the entire time.  They never broke contact.  I was not advocating for an escape point, I was using it as reference of control.  He never escaped a control hold after being scored on (bodylock).  It is similar to a crotch throw.  You cannot crotch throw someone then get an additional point for coming out on top if it goes 2-0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, LJB said:

again, the rule book, if actually read, will clear this up...

 

FYI, nothing about breaking contact is in there... 

I am not referring to a contact break, I am referring to control and position, which is stated in the rule book.  You have to return to a defendable position or what they call an initial position to be able to score again.  You also cannot score additional takedown points by going behind immediately after scoring an exposure from standing.  The clearest form of returning to a defendable position from standing is breaking contact and facing, which is why I used that as a reference.

 

Had Gilman immediately spun behind after the chest wrap, he would have received 1 point, not 2 correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well, if you are not referring to a break in contact, i would advise against saying those exact words to defend your position...

 

what you are failing to see is that gillman was exposed in par terre position then came up to his feet... that is considered a new position... after coming to his feet he gave up the takedown... it was scored correctly and any challenge would have been swiftly dismissed with a smirk...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well my thought is that this match was very winnable for Thomas. I think had he just ramped up his attack rate and stayed out of the control tie up he was using, he probably would've found himself with a comfortable cushion of points, and the dubious call by the referees wouldn't have had much significance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, olddirty said:

He got rolled through and the Turk had a body lock the entire time.  They never broke contact.  I was not advocating for an escape point, I was using it as reference of control.  He never escaped a control hold after being scored on (bodylock).  It is similar to a crotch throw.  You cannot crotch throw someone then get an additional point for coming out on top if it goes 2-0.

You should watch again.  He didn't get the body lock until Gilman stood up.  It was a counter to Gilman's headlock attempt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×