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TBar1977

World Champs vs MMA Champ

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11 hours ago, PRyan2012 said:

Wonder if Askren will get a title shot right away!

No chance. The UFC will want to work him up to that. He hinted very strongly recently on Twitter that Darren Till may be his first matchup. That would be a huge contrast in styles since Till is mainly a striker.

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43 minutes ago, wrestlingnerd said:

No chance. The UFC will want to work him up to that. He hinted very strongly recently on Twitter that Darren Till may be his first matchup. That would be a huge contrast in styles since Till is mainly a striker.

They'll need to feed him a few wins for post fight trash talking and soap opera drama purposes.  It will be interesting if he calls out Woodley.  Aren't they both Mizzou guys?  Will they create a pretend beef to get paid like 95% of the guys in the UFC?

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On 10/24/2018 at 1:04 PM, TBar1977 said:

I don't believe any MMA Champ could beat a World Wrestling Champ in wrestling event, but what about the reverse. Do you think any Wrestling Champ could beat an MMA Champ in the Octagon. They obviously couldn't do it with striking and likely not with any submission hold either, but could they just repeatedly take them down OR take them down and hold them down to gain a decision? 

 

ask Cary Kolat his opinion

 

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I think it's changed a lot.  Maybe 10 years ago or so, but these guys are all very proficient in all martial arts.  Besides, virtually every one of us was taught to not shoot from a distance further than a bent arm.  Well, if you're that close, you're gonna be eating kicks, uppercuts, etc.  I say no chance with only one martial art background.

 

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The number of MMA #1’s and #2’s that are wrestlers is kinda like the big ten in the NCAA finals. So a wrestler coming straight over against one of those guys: Cejudo, Dillashaw, Khabib, Woodley, Jones, Cormier, etc etc....their chances are slim to none. Now, give the Snyder’s and Sadulaev’s and Vlasov’s of the world a few years of MMA focus....now we’re talking. 

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On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 11:04 AM, TBar1977 said:

I don't believe any MMA Champ could beat a World Wrestling Champ in wrestling event, but what about the reverse. Do you think any Wrestling Champ could beat an MMA Champ in the Octagon. They obviously couldn't do it with striking and likely not with any submission hold either, but could they just repeatedly take them down OR take them down and hold them down to gain a decision? 

 

Back to original intent of the post/thread:

No.  

I think we, as wrestlers, think we have the most awesome martial art there is.  I'm on of them.  But.  I'm also a realist.  Although wrestling translates "well" to the Octagon, as evidenced by so many who have made the transition, with success, it's an assumptive leap to think that a World Champ Wrestler could hang with someone who at the top of their respective game, at their own game. 

Can the Judo OLY Champ beat the Greco OLY Champ?  Maybe, once in a while.  Can Greco Champ return the favor?  Maybe, once in a while.  

Can the Checkers Champ beat the Chess Champ?  Vice Versa?  

I think with training, any of the current/former world champion freestylers "could" be competitive, and could gain a win or two (out of ten) against an MMA champ.  But... overall, the MMA Champ is more well-rounded, well-versed, and will be more ready for whatever the wrestler may throw at them.  Whereas, the wrestler is ill-prepared to take the striking, and to fully "adapt" to the Jiu Jitsu game, where being on your back is still an A-OK concept.  Wrestlers freak out to much at first, and end up in weird armbars and chokes.  ;-)

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On 10/24/2018 at 4:46 PM, TobusRex said:

 

Folk guys are a different story. Nobody has come close to beating Askren yet. But point on the FS guys: yeah, they can take you down, but they can't grind you to dust like a good folk wrestler.  I think Zain would be an absolute beast in MMA.

Askren fan here, but he has almost lost twice. Those guys came close to beating him. 

Jay Hieron fight was arguably a robbery. 

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On 10/25/2018 at 9:02 PM, boconnell said:

They'll need to feed him a few wins for post fight trash talking and soap opera drama purposes.  It will be interesting if he calls out Woodley.  Aren't they both Mizzou guys?  Will they create a pretend beef to get paid like 95% of the guys in the UFC?

Woodley and Askren are friends and speak about each other positively all the time. I doubt the would fight, and even if they did, there wouldn’t be any trash talk

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I’m talking from experience here. I worked in the mma industry for awhile and I trained with (for fun, not at a high level) Shane Roller, Johnny Hendricks and a few other high level wrestlers turned mma fighters  

It is a completely different sport. World champ wrestlers could beat scrubs, but in order to be competitive, they would have to train for years. Also, freestyle doesn’t translate like folk or greco. The positions in mma are more similar to folk and Greco than free. 

I assure you, any credible wrestler based mma fighter at a high level would agree. 

It is the best base and I wouldn’t want to fight a world champ wrestler, but I also suck and never competed in mma. 

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It's a slap in the face to the world champs of either sport to assume that someone from another sport would just waltz in there and dominate.  For example, Kyle Dake would quickly techfall Woodley in wrestling, and Woodley would knock Dake out or submit him quickly in a cage fight.  

 

I wonder about Khabib and Rasul Gadzhimagomedov, though, because I assume that they're probably friends and may have worked out together....

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On 10/24/2018 at 9:41 PM, TobusRex said:

I'm admittedly pretty ignorant on the topic. I used to watch MMA back in the old days (90's), but I don't watch anymore because I don't have cable TV and just stream everything. Anyway I've always thought a top notch wrestler would do quite well in MMA, especially the  beast style guys. I bet Metcalf would've destroyed guys in his prime.

Others have hinted at these ideas, but a basic summary is this:

1. "Beast" type guys from wrestling backgrounds dominated the early years of MMA even with very few submission or striking skills

2. High-level wrestling still provides arguably the strongest base for any MMA fighter

3. The days of unskilled, single-discipline fighters in top MMA organizations is long, long gone. "Beast" grinders with limited submission and striking skills now lose more than they win at the top level and mostly don't last because they're boring to watch for the average fan. Everyone now can defend standard, wrestling-style takedowns, even against elite Olympic-level wrestlers. Wrestling-background fighters that have success have developed high-level striking, submission defense and attacks, and high-level MMA-adapted wrestling skills (i.e. takedowns in a chain off of their own strikes and takedowns as perfectly timed reactions to opponents' strikes). 

Coming back to the original question: COULD wrestling world champs become MMA fighters that could compete at the highest level? Of course. Would they without high-level skills right off the bat? Those of us that watch MMA have seen too many really high-level ex-wrestlers get knocked out cold or put to sleep by submissions off their own shots to believe anyone in the world would walk in unskilled like in 1995 and have immediate high-level success.

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Last time I saw Ben Askren fight he was getting tossed around by some Brazilian before resorting to eye pocking him, which ended the fight. You'd think the Brazilian was the Olympic wrestler watching that fight.

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Askren v Lawler is a great test for Ben. We will see very soon if he deserves a title shot against Khabib if Khabib is willing to bump up. Also just saw that Khabib's wrestling coach is Sajidov-small world! 

Edited by PRyan2012

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5 hours ago, PRyan2012 said:

Askren v Lawler is a great test for Ben. We will see very soon if he deserves a title shot against Khabib if Khabib is willing to bump up. Also just saw that Khabib's wrestling coach is Sajidov-small world! 

agree very intrigued about fight vs Lawler. not sure I follow rest of your post....if Khabib bumps up there is no title shot (unless you are assuming and meant by bumping up that Khabib wins the title at higher weight)

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First we have to see if Askren is worthy. If so against Lawler then who is next? Askren was talking about a catch weight against Khabib. For the title or just for money? He said he can not make 155. If he beats Robbie then a lot of doors and big money fights will open up. He said he will not fight Woodley so where does he go??? 

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