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TBar1977

World Champs vs MMA Champ

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I don't believe any MMA Champ could beat a World Wrestling Champ in wrestling event, but what about the reverse. Do you think any Wrestling Champ could beat an MMA Champ in the Octagon. They obviously couldn't do it with striking and likely not with any submission hold either, but could they just repeatedly take them down OR take them down and hold them down to gain a decision? 

 

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Absolutely not, there are world level wrestlers in MMA and even the ones that got to the top like Cejudo took many many years to get to that level.  You have to be well rounded in MMA, would never happen...

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They'd just get submitted, assuming they don't get knocked out. Anyone who is good enough at MMA (even fighters with a striking background) to become the champion of any major organisation would be competent enough on the ground to submit a freestyle wrestler with no submission grappling knowledge. The ground game in MMA and wrestling are totally different. All these top FS guys could and have done well in MMA but you have to actually take the time to learn MMA. 

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I know this is all purely hypothetical... but I'm positive that champs in either sport would find the idea that someone could walk out of the octagon and win wrestling world gold, or step off the mat into the cage and take out a UFC champ, extremely disrespectful.  Both take insane commitment and years of dedication.  Sadulaev likely loses to Cormier just as quickly as Cormier gets teched by Sadulaev on the mat.  

Now, if we're giving them years to train?  Most every wrestling world champ could make it very far in MMA. The same can't be said in reverse.  

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31 minutes ago, MatJunkie said:

I think Cox would do just fine.

Everyone thinks they know how to fight until they actually do. Punching and kicking isn't something people are naturally good at or something you learn in wrestling.

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26 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Mark Schultz beat UFC Runner-up Gary Goodridge in his MMA debut.

Gary didn't know jack about fighting on the ground and Mark put him there pretty fast.

 

There's no way any current world champion wrestler or high level fs wrestler would beat a current MMA champ on wrestling alone.  Even if the wrestler took the MMA guy down, I can guarantee you that the wrestler would get arm barred, triangled or guillotined even if they had the mount.  If we're talking when the UFC first started and it was basically one discipline vs another, then that's a different story.

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None of the world champ wrestlers would beat a UFC champ in an MMA fight at their respective weight class. Taking someone down is an entirely different animal when you're getting punched, kicked, kneed, and elbowed in the process. 

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Heavyweight is the only weight I'd give the wrestler the chance.  There's a reason that Brock Lesnar was successful with almost no MMA training, and that's because there's almost no high level BJJ at Heavyweight.  With a 12 week training camp I wouldn't be surprised to see Snyder or Petriashvili beat any heavy in the world other than Cormier just using takedowns.  But at the other weights there are too many guys who would put them in real danger when it hit the mat. 

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Just now, boconnell said:

Heavyweight is the only weight I'd give the wrestler the chance.  There's a reason that Brock Lesnar was successful with almost no MMA training, and that's because there's almost no high level BJJ at Heavyweight.  With a 12 week training camp I wouldn't be surprised to see Snyder or Petriashvili beat any heavy in the world other than Cormier just using takedowns.  But at the other weights there are too many guys who would put them in real danger when it hit the mat. 

And the fact that the overall skill level of the average HW is far lower than say the average LW. So if you are truly a master of one skill, you can usually impose that skill on your opponent because he does not have the rounded skillset to make you pay otherwise. 

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2 minutes ago, PSUMike said:

And the fact that the overall skill level of the average HW is far lower than say the average LW. So if you are truly a master of one skill, you can usually impose that skill on your opponent because he does not have the rounded skillset to make you pay otherwise. 

Yep.  Most of the heavyweight division in the UFC is large men who take turns knocking each other out with monster power.  Most have decent TD defense simply by virtue of being large men going against average wrestlers and grapplers.  I can't ever remember a triangle choke from the guard at heavyweight.  Half the techniques don't exist because of body size, just like in wrestling.  So there's half as much to prepare for. 

Frank Mir had above average BJJ skill if he was a small man, but because he was a large man he was the greatest Heavyweight submission guy ever.  Brock Lesnar shot simple double legs, held a wide base, and punched guys from on top.  Take a world champion  wrestler and give him 3 months and I'd absolutely expect him to do the same and beat the UFC heavyweight division (with the exception of Cormier who is a fat 205 doing the same thing).  

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3 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

They'd just get submitted, assuming they don't get knocked out. Anyone who is good enough at MMA (even fighters with a striking background) to become the champion of any major organisation would be competent enough on the ground to submit a freestyle wrestler with no submission grappling knowledge. The ground game in MMA and wrestling are totally different. All these top FS guys could and have done well in MMA but you have to actually take the time to learn MMA. 

 

Folk guys are a different story. Nobody has come close to beating Askren yet. But point on the FS guys: yeah, they can take you down, but they can't grind you to dust like a good folk wrestler.  I think Zain would be an absolute beast in MMA.

Edited by TobusRex

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3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

 

Folk guys are a different story. Nobody has come close to beating Askren yet. But point on the FS guys: yeah, they can take you down, but they can't grind you to dust like a good folk wrestler.  I think Zain would be an absolute beast in MMA.

Not to knock Askren bc he had a great career but he essentially dominated a mediocre organization at best. He never really fought anybody considered world class anything. 

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52 minutes ago, Ogalthorpe Haywood said:

Not to knock Askren bc he had a great career but he essentially dominated a mediocre organization at best. He never really fought anybody considered world class anything. 

True enough. It's a shame UFC never let him fight their champ though, would've been fun.

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I'm admittedly pretty ignorant on the topic. I used to watch MMA back in the old days (90's), but I don't watch anymore because I don't have cable TV and just stream everything. Anyway I've always thought a top notch wrestler would do quite well in MMA, especially the  beast style guys. I bet Metcalf would've destroyed guys in his prime.

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This wasn't MMA, but I know some of you probably saw this when it first came out as I did.  Even though I wrestled and did a lot of BJJ after, I thought it was kind of a dumb event because it was a submission grappling event where you could win by submission or by judge's decision.  The wrestlers had no idea how to do any submissions.  Gable was there and it was called The Contenders, in Sioux City, Iowa.  It was BJJ/Pancrase guys against freestyle wrestlers.  That's the event where Frank Shamrock heel hooked Dan Henderson and made him scream in pain.  No striking was allowed.

Perretti was the promoter(from Extreme Fighting)

Tsuyoshi Kosaka vs Tom Erikson(Erickson won by decision-basically just laid on top of Kosaka and kept control)
Frank Shamrock vs Dan Henderson(Hendo got heelhooked and screamed in pain)
Andre Pederneiras vs Townsend Saunders(Saunders by decision)
Mike Van Arsdale vs Renato Verissimo(Van Arsdale by decision)
Joao Roque vs Dennis Hall(Roque by decision-had a SWEET sweep reversal from the guard)
Chris Barnes vs Carlos Newton(Barnes got armbarred)
Kenny Monday vs Matt Hume(Monday got heelhooked)

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