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Yarygin 2019

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3 hours ago, Peso said:

Kyle is one of the greatest I've ever seen.  What has happened to Kyle is what we felt like The USSR age Russian wrestlers were trying to do to Gable.  When we used to say, they searched all of Russia, we were talking about the dozen or so time zones they were capable of drawing athletes from.  They were equally as capable of producing several medalists at each weight,  They were plenty feared back in the day of the Big Red Machine. I'm impressed that the Yarygin may even be tougher than tbilisi tournament.  I do know that back in the 70's and 80's I read several times that people thought  it was tougher than the Worlds, because there was more than one Russian per weight.  You know, back in the day when Schultz won his silver medal  as a high schooler.  Kudos to them for winning this round of the chess match.  Seems odd to me that we have the Dave Schultz the same week-end.  Dave wouldn't have wanted that imo.

Also can't see the logic of scheduling the DS at the same time as the Yarigan.  The DS becomes a mostly hometown JV meet, which is shameful.

Regarding Tblisi, don't forget that only the top Russian was allowed to medal.

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Every year Snyder takes a loss or two and everyone freaks out. Then he makes the world finals and is 3/4 in the finals. 

Snyder is fine. 

Wrestling at this level is hard. Snyder will peak for worlds and unless seeding is messed up, will make the finals opposite Sadulaev. He has a chance if winning that match too. 

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13 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

 

Lol stop messing around. Iran even sent a guy who doesn't wrestle FS  ( he wrestles a traditional Iranian style) to the 2017 Yarygin at 97 and he got a bronze despite it being his first international tournament ever.  The field was horrible that year.  Next year Magomedov fluked out and was on the opposite side to Baitsaev and Snyder so he got another silver. Trust me Magomedov is far from an elite world class wrestler. I will never forget how bad he was at U23 worlds. 

You can use all the downplaying anecdotes for each and every consecutive year a guy medals at the toughest tournament in the world, including gold over a four year running world/Olympic finalist...but then to say in the same message he is FAR from elite, that’s the joke. 

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Every year Snyder takes a loss or two and everyone freaks out. Then he makes the world finals and is 3/4 in the finals. 

Snyder is fine. 

Wrestling at this level is hard. Snyder will peak for worlds and unless seeding is messed up, will make the finals opposite Sadulaev. He has a chance if winning that match too. 

Remember a few years ago and Snyder had the "perfect record" going for him? All the talk of a series of World/Olympic Titles without a loss? We have come back to reality. On the World stage, for the USA it is still John Smith overall. Pick one guy with all the marbles on the line and he is the guy I would go to - all else being equal. Six tries, Six titles. No, he was not perfect but as close as anyone in the US has ever been - though I did not see Roger Reed. Internationally I would put Dan Gable second as he, at his peak - was the man.

Now we have Kyle Snyder and Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake and David Taylor - World Champions one and all - with Burroughs and Snyder at the top for now. Hope they can keep it up and Snyder can figure out The Russians.
 

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13 hours ago, 2td3nf said:

I know I'm whining a little bit here, but still not happy that all Yariguin match videos are posted on the UWW site but the American fans get blocked. Why?

There's a bunch of matches on Flo but not all of them. Why can't I watch the 125kg final? It's right there on the UWW site.   :(

Times like these are when VPNs come in handy.

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2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Every year Snyder takes a loss or two and everyone freaks out. Then he makes the world finals and is 3/4 in the finals. 

Snyder is fine. 

Wrestling at this level is hard. Snyder will peak for worlds and unless seeding is messed up, will make the finals opposite Sadulaev. He has a chance if winning that match too. 

Agree. Snyder's fine.

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26 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

Remember a few years ago and Snyder had the "perfect record" going for him? All the talk of a series of World/Olympic Titles without a loss? We have come back to reality. On the World stage, for the USA it is still John Smith overall. Pick one guy with all the marbles on the line and he is the guy I would go to - all else being equal. Six tries, Six titles. No, he was not perfect but as close as anyone in the US has ever been - though I did not see Roger Reed. Internationally I would put Dan Gable second as he, at his peak - was the man.

Now we have Kyle Snyder and Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake and David Taylor - World Champions one and all - with Burroughs and Snyder at the top for now. Hope they can keep it up and Snyder can figure out The Russians.
 

I would say our top freestylers are Smith, Burroughs, Baumgartner, and Kemp. Snyder could soon join this group.

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1 hour ago, WillieBoy said:

Remember a few years ago and Snyder had the "perfect record" going for him? All the talk of a series of World/Olympic Titles without a loss? We have come back to reality. On the World stage, for the USA it is still John Smith overall. Pick one guy with all the marbles on the line and he is the guy I would go to - all else being equal. Six tries, Six titles. No, he was not perfect but as close as anyone in the US has ever been - though I did not see Roger Reed. Internationally I would put Dan Gable second as he, at his peak - was the man.

Now we have Kyle Snyder and Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake and David Taylor - World Champions one and all - with Burroughs and Snyder at the top for now. Hope they can keep it up and Snyder can figure out The Russians.
 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-10-9103270543-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/sports/barcelona-wrestling-despite-a-ruckus-3-american-wrestlers-strike-gold.html

 

Smith lost to Reinoso twice, even at the Olympics when Smith won gold through the half assed system they used. 

If you're going to run your mouth son, at least get the facts straight! 

Jon Smith 5  1/2 time champ! 

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2 hours ago, cjc007 said:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-10-9103270543-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/sports/barcelona-wrestling-despite-a-ruckus-3-american-wrestlers-strike-gold.html

 

Smith lost to Reinoso twice, even at the Olympics when Smith won gold through the half assed system they used. 

If you're going to run your mouth son, at least get the facts straight! 

Jon Smith 5  1/2 time champ! 

He said he wasn’t perfect. In the loss to reinoso, he lost the match where in he took the foot off the pedal because all he had to do was not lose by fall. He was gaming the system, the current system in sure would have influenced a different match, if not a different result. 

No halfsies...

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7 hours ago, cjc007 said:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-10-9103270543-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/sports/barcelona-wrestling-despite-a-ruckus-3-american-wrestlers-strike-gold.html

 

Smith lost to Reinoso twice, even at the Olympics when Smith won gold through the half assed system they used. 

If you're going to run your mouth son, at least get the facts straight! 

Jon Smith 5  1/2 time champ! 

"No, he was not perfect but as close as anyone in the US has ever been ".

Pay attention to what I wrote. Am well aware of the losses, but within the system he won the Title. Your carping sounds as if you are about to bring up Paul Jenn when someone mentions "159-0".

Edited by WillieBoy

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10 hours ago, WillieBoy said:

Remember a few years ago and Snyder had the "perfect record" going for him? All the talk of a series of World/Olympic Titles without a loss? We have come back to reality. On the World stage, for the USA it is still John Smith overall. Pick one guy with all the marbles on the line and he is the guy I would go to - all else being equal. Six tries, Six titles. No, he was not perfect but as close as anyone in the US has ever been - though I did not see Roger Reed. Internationally I would put Dan Gable second as he, at his peak - was the man.

Now we have Kyle Snyder and Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Dake and David Taylor - World Champions one and all - with Burroughs and Snyder at the top for now. Hope they can keep it up and Snyder can figure out The Russians.
 

A wrestling version of the Holy Grail would be finding lost film of Robin Reed wrestling.

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11 hours ago, Katie said:

I would say our top freestylers are Smith, Burroughs, Baumgartner, and Kemp. Snyder could soon join this group.

What about Henry Wittenberg? He has  a gold and a silver in the Olympics.

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19 hours ago, Lurker said:

You can use all the downplaying anecdotes for each and every consecutive year a guy medals at the toughest tournament in the world, including gold over a four year running world/Olympic finalist...but then to say in the same message he is FAR from elite, that’s the joke. 

Toughest tournament in the world is mostly clever marketing the past few years and depends entirely on the weight class and who participates. At some weights and in some years i'm sure it could be considered tougher than worlds, but you can't just make a blanket statement like that.  You think the field at 97 in this year's Yarygin was tougher than worlds? No chance and not even close. 

 

If Magomedov is so great, why was he unable to beat this average Mongolian ( can't win medals at Asian championships or Asian games,  despite Asia being weak  at upper weights) after beating Snyder? Lost 7 - 2. 

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6 hours ago, Shiraz123 said:

Toughest tournament in the world is mostly clever marketing the past few years and depends entirely on the weight class and who participates. At some weights and in some years i'm sure it could be considered tougher than worlds, but you can't just make a blanket statement like that.  You think the field at 97 in this year's Yarygin was tougher than worlds? No chance and not even close. 

 

If Magomedov is so great, why was he unable to beat this average Mongolian ( can't win medals at Asian championships or Asian games,  despite Asia being weak  at upper weights) after beating Snyder? Lost 7 - 2. 

Just as you cant make a blanket statement that 1 loss by Snyder is the end of the world and his career is over, never to medal again.

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On 1/27/2019 at 7:46 AM, cjc007 said:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-10-9103270543-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/sports/barcelona-wrestling-despite-a-ruckus-3-american-wrestlers-strike-gold.html

 

Smith lost to Reinoso twice, even at the Olympics when Smith won gold through the half assed system they used. 

If you're going to run your mouth son, at least get the facts straight! 

Jon Smith 5  1/2 time champ! 

Jon Smith may have been a 5 1/2 time champ.

John Smith was a 6 time champ.  Period.  6 gold medals proves it.

mspart

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20 minutes ago, mspart said:

Jon Smith may have been a 5 1/2 time champ.

John Smith was a 6 time champ.  Period.  6 gold medals proves it.

mspart

He lost at the Olympics to Reinoso, only scoring one point. 

He would not be be a champ under the new, better rules. 
 

Look at the results, John Smith lost in Olympics only to rewarded as the pool champion.    

 

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One of Reinoso's teammates explained how Reinoso was able to get Smith's number.  They don't have a lot of resources there but they are exceptionally resourceful.  For months on end his sparring partners would simulate Smiths low-level attack and his coaches developed tactics and strategy to shut him down.  After every practice, Reinoso would undergo additional situational wrestling with all partners simulating Smith.  Obviously, he had trouble with plenty of other styles (Azizov, Brands, even some lesser Americans, etc.) but he was a thorn for Smith.

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1 hour ago, cjc007 said:

He lost at the Olympics to Reinoso, only scoring one point. 

He would not be be a champ under the new, better rules. 

Look at the results, John Smith lost in Olympics only to rewarded as the pool champion.    

 

John Smith wasn't wrestling under the new rules, so that is a straw man.  If what they said is accurate, he knew that all he had to do in that match was not get pinned to advance.  He had ZERO reason to take any big risks and didn't have to wrestle with the mindset to win. 

Edited by Gantry

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Let me clarify:  https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1992-07-14-1992196150-story.html

Keaser's coaches told him the wrong point spread he could lose by to Pinegin.  Both were undefeated but Pinegin had tied two bouts, putting Keaser in the lead by the match point system.  He could lose to Pinegin but not by the amount the coaches assured him.

I talked with the late Jim Peckham about this years after and he was still heartbroken for Keaser.  Gotta know the system in play

Edited by Coach_J
clarity

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On 1/27/2019 at 8:46 AM, cjc007 said:

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1991-08-10-9103270543-story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/1992/08/08/sports/barcelona-wrestling-despite-a-ruckus-3-american-wrestlers-strike-gold.html

 

Smith lost to Reinoso twice, even at the Olympics when Smith won gold through the half assed system they used. 

If you're going to run your mouth son, at least get the facts straight! 

Jon Smith 5  1/2 time champ! 

He has his facts straight - 6 tries,  6 golds.  

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On 1/28/2019 at 10:24 AM, cjc007 said:

He lost at the Olympics to Reinoso, only scoring one point. 

He would not be be a champ under the new, better rules. 
 

Look at the results, John Smith lost in Olympics only to rewarded as the pool champion.    

 

You would complain there is no 190 pound champion if the weight class was 184.

Smith took Gold. He did so under the rules at the time. He was a six time World Champion - six in a row.

If you want perfection - go to Osamu Watanabe - 186-0 and never taken down.

John Smith has the medals and won every time it was on the line... EVERY time.

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