How would results look with multiple entries per country?

[Pinnum 670]

I am curious what people think the results would look like if there were multiple entries per country.

How many World Class athletes do we think sit home because they are second at their weight in their country but top-10 or top-20 in the world? 

[Housebuye 1,706]

A lot. I think Russia would win at least 3 more medals (out of 10 in freestyle)

The US would do ok. I would think Zahid, Fix/Lee, Steveson/Coon, Zain/Yianni/JO would all have a chance to medal, even though they aren’t our #1s (right now...)

[2td3nf 449]

Teammates of the same country would probably face each other in the first round.  :D

[Cradle1 154]

Dierenger likely to medal as well, he wrestled Dake tougher than anyone.  65 kg was loaded, I don’t see any of those guys medaling this year. Stevenson is a year or two away (recall he failed to medal at junior worlds) and I don’t see coon getting there based on his how gwiz outclassed him at final X.  I could see fix getting hot and grabbing a bronze- ditto Spencer Lee.

[Housebuye 1,706]

8 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

Dierenger likely to medal as well, he wrestled Dake tougher than anyone.  65 kg was loaded, I don’t see any of those guys medaling this year. Stevenson is a year or two away (recall he failed to medal at junior worlds) and I don’t see coon getting there based on his how gwiz outclassed him at final X.  I could see fix getting hot and grabbing a bronze- ditto Spencer Lee.

Steveson losing at junior worlds should have no bearing on this I don't think. He was good enough to win juniors and cadets multiple times. He lost legitimately, but winning or losing that match doesn't mean much, especially considering how it went down. Also, I'm suggesting who would have a shot at medaling next year besides our current #1s. With another year, I expect Gable to be challenging Gwiz for the spot. He really is that good in my opinion. 

Good call on Deringer. He had a good shot at medaling at 79. We are really deep at 79kg. Maybe Mark Hall could too! Nolf at 70kg is another one. I assume Nickal is up there too, but he hasn't shown it in freestyle yet.

[2td3nf 449]

I don't know what Spencer Lee's international schedule looks like for 2019, but if he's healthy, I have him as a gold medal contender for 2019 Worlds and 2020 Olympics. 

[Cradle1 154]

On 10/31/2018 at 2:57 PM, Housebuye said:

Steveson losing at junior worlds should have no bearing on this I don't think. He was good enough to win juniors and cadets multiple times. He lost legitimately, but winning or losing that match doesn't mean much, especially considering how it went down. Also, I'm suggesting who would have a shot at medaling next year besides our current #1s. With another year, I expect Gable to be challenging Gwiz for the spot. He really is that good in my opinion. 

Good call on Deringer. He had a good shot at medaling at 79. We are really deep at 79kg. Maybe Mark Hall could too! Nolf at 70kg is another one. I assume Nickal is up there too, but he hasn't shown it in freestyle yet.

I’m inclined to agree regarding Steveson. I believe the reason that he failed to repeat May have been burn out as a result of competing at so many major events. Ditto fix and Kerleviet.... In addition to there in season schedule, they all are competing on multiple age group levels  which typically have multiple teared qualification processes.... a list of the major events fix competed in over the last 12 months would be unprecedented.

[Lurker 597]

We already have a reference point to see what it may look like...the break up of the Soviet Union. Look at how many medals are won by former Soviet Republics. If every country was allowed to enter two athletes, my guess is 85% of the medals are won by someone who’s name ends in the letter ‘V’. 

[manyak 182]

It would be really ugly for us

[Housebuye 1,706]

14 hours ago, manyak said:

It would be really ugly for us

I’m pretty confident we are the second deepest country in the world. Why would it be a disaster for us?

[Lurker 597]

Because Russia’s two deep is just simply at a higher level than ours. The gap when you get to 3 deep is even wider. And as is already happening, that #3 is going to look to heading to AZE or Georgia, etc. to compete when they can’t make the Russian team. And I’m only talking Freestyle here. In Greco....yikes. 

[manyak 182]

3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I’m pretty confident we are the second deepest country in the world. Why would it be a disaster for us?

Because Russia is ten times as deep as us

[jcjcjc 105]

3 hours ago, manyak said:

Because Russia is ten times as deep as us

Russia would double their medal haul if they were allowed two wrestlers per weight. It would be harder for every other country to medal despite having two wrestlers per weight because Russia would take even more. 

We are pretty quick to forget that Snyder has lost to Russians not named Saduleav. 

[GoNotQuietly 707]

Echoing what has already been said, but Russia has medal threats stacked up 3-8 deep, depending on the weight class. I'd absolutely love to see this tournament, but pretending it would not benefit them the most seems silly.

Edited November 5, 2018 by GoNotQuietly

[steamboat_charlie v2 555]

At some point it's a bit of a numbers game as well.  Russia simply has many more athletes competing or attempting to compete at a high level internationally.  Looking just at freestyle, outside of the 10 wrestlers that Russia sent, which took home 7 medals, there were 34 native Russians competing for different countries.  Of those 34, just 4 medaled (Sanayev, Friev, Shabanau, Batirov).  Honestly, a pretty poor return.  Add 34 more guys to a tournament and you're bound to get at least 4 medals IMO.  

Beyond those "extras", you have a handful of relatively proven elite guys that were left home in Russia.  Tsabalov, Kurbanaliev, Bekbulatov (if he's healthy), Baitsaev, Naifonov, Idrisov.  These guys are all going to be medal contenders.  Behind that 2nd tier group, you have a 3rd tier that runs really deep.  On any given day, depending on how many entries we're supposing Russia gets per weight class, those guys have a shot at medaling.  

Looking at guys that weren't on our team that I think on their best day could potentially medal--and this is casting a wide net, I know: Lee, Fix, Maple, Garrett, Graff, Zain, JO, Yianni, McKenna, Nolf, Molinaro, Martinez, Lewis, Dieringer, Zahid, Hall, Heflin, Nickal, Moore, Gadson, Zillmer, Steveson?  These guys are, for the most part, outside shots. Russia has 5 times this number of similar quality. 

[CatchWrestler74kg 11]

It would probably look like Jiu Jitsu we’re majority of the finalist are from Brazilian but instead they would be Russians.