Ducking

[Perry 1,423]

Just saw Brands is holding out Warner this weekend vs Kent State. Something going on here or is Brands trying to preserve Warner's ego a little bit by not sending him into the deep end right away? Not overly impressed with iowa if it is the latter (which I am guessing it is).

[jchapman 1,321]

Maybe Warner has a wedding this weekend?

[Housebuye 2,421]

Not sure if Conel is even wrestling. He has a shoulder injury. 

Brands has held guys out in the past, but I think it generally has to do with seeding or injury rather than egos. 

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,124]

Real shame, was one of the better early season matchups.  

Warner is healthy and practicing with the team, but needs a rest because he wrestled 1 match at Junior World's back in September?  

For what it's worth, Conel tweeted this morning just "F"... think he may have been looking forward to the match.  

[Perry 1,423]

He didn't seem to be feeling too bad to participate in their wrestle offs, but those September tournaments could certainly take their toll mid-November

[hammerlockthree 2,587]

Does Warner have a cupcake schedule this year? Is he shooting to go undefeated? Holding him out for a seed seems ridiculous in the beginning of November unless they think going undefeated is in the cards. He hits Miklus in a dual, but not Nickel or Moore right?

[teach 175]

It is a system issue, not just a coaching issue.

[hammerlockthree 2,587]

That theory doesn't hold warner has duals with a bunch of ranked guys....he'd better be injured...

[hammerlockthree 2,587]

Plus, Conel just kinda bum rushes people...you'd think it would be an advantage for warner to wrestle him and get a feel....

[treep2000 1,124]

People were saying similar things about Moore and his training for U23's.  The difference is this though... for NCAA's, Moore needs to be at 197.  To be "most competitive" at U23's, he needs to be at 97kg, or 213lbs.  That's a pretty big swing, and a pretty good reason to NOT make an NCAA weight, as you try to go up to bring home a world, age-level medal.

I also concur that it's "odd" that Warner, after only one match, at 92kg (if I recall), would hold out at this point.  He needs all the feels he can get.  If Conel can "surprise" Moore (twice), there's no telling what he could do to Warner.  

[steamboat_charlie v2 1,124]

15 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Does Warner have a cupcake schedule this year? Is he shooting to go undefeated? Holding him out for a seed seems ridiculous in the beginning of November unless they think going undefeated is in the cards. He hits Miklus in a dual, but not Nickel or Moore right?

Assuming Warner is ready to go after this 1 week sabbatical, he'd have Brucki next week, and Brunner the week following.  Both top 10 opponents with wins over Warner last year.  Then Miklus the following week (who Warner holds a win over), and finally Weiler, who's decent.  None of Penn State, Ohio State, or Kent State, attend Midlands, so if he can make it through that stretch, in theory, he's home free until B10's except for Weigel in the last week of the season.

I suppose the logic is that he's about to have a string of 5 (excluding Conel, now 4) matches in a row against top 10ish opponents, and starting off by potentially getting pinned could be harmful to the kid?  If they're really already thinking about end of year seeding... talk about putting the cart before the horse.  

 

[Ching 180]

Did I miss something or why do people think Conel's style is going to "surprise" people only once (or twice)? Was he doing double reverse flee flickers? What I saw was repeatable as long as he is willing.

[cjc007 774]

Did I miss something or why do people think Conel's style is going to "surprise" people only once (or twice)? Was he doing double reverse flee flickers? What I saw was repeatable as long as he is willing.

People underestimate Konels' beast mode. That's the surprise. He's pretty damn good. Not some type of fluke.

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[TBar1977 4,498]

We had the same thread last year when Brands held Stoll out vs. Kyle Snyder. Stoll wrestled the week before Snyder, then he wrestled again the week after Snyder. Just not Snyder. 

This looks pretty similar. The only difference is Brands pathetically weak excuse of Under23's (a month ago for cr***akes) as the reason he can't wrestle Conel. And so what he will wrestle guys like Brucki and Brunner, he isn't going to see Nickal or Moore this regular season so Conel is the top guy on his schedule. And Brands holds him out. 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by TBar1977

[hammerlockthree 2,587]

39 minutes ago, Ching said:

Did I miss something or why do people think Conel's style is going to "surprise" people only once (or twice)? Was he doing double reverse flee flickers? What I saw was repeatable as long as he is willing.

yeah I might be wrong in characterizing him as bum rushing people. I haven't watched him very much.

[Gantry 1,872]

Warner has absolutely nothing to lose by wrestling Conel as he wouldn't be hurt by losing to him and get a big ranking jump by beating him.  If Brands is keeping him out, it's not to duck as he has more to gain by going out there than not. 

[TBar1977 4,498]

13 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Warner has absolutely nothing to lose by wrestling Conel as he wouldn't be hurt by losing to him and get a big ranking jump by beating him.  If Brands is keeping him out, it's not to duck as he has more to gain by going out there than not. 

Warner wrestled in their wrestle offs on Friday. He's also been back plenty long enough from U23's to be at 197 without problem. There is a clip of Brands saying something like U23's was a factor. I will try to find that clip. 

EDIT: Here is Brands answer from Media Day (with link to transcript)

Q. Outside of 141, what were some other reactions?
TOM BRANDS: We have to score more points. That comes down to when I talked about familiarity. First period takedowns, it’s a hard way to make a living in this sport. If you’re going to get a first period takedown on me, you’re not going to beat me. You have to keep scoring.

We play a lot of matches to our team. The examples that we show, it doesn’t matter if you get the score or not, just keep wrestling. I’m not sure that our guys kept wrestling. We won some close matches where we actually had the benefit of a first period takedown, but if you rely on that, it will bite you.

That’s probably what I see more than anything. I think we have some depth that everybody’s talking about. We have Jacob Warner, who is not going to be in the lineup this weekend because he just got back — he just got back in the middle of the third week in September from the World Championships. He needed a break. That’s important for us. He’s been training. He hasn’t missed a beat. Just to go from the World Championships from September right into the season, we got to do it right. He’ll go either against Princeton or for sure against Purdue. If you see him not in the lineup, don’t freak out, so on and so forth.

 

The above is found in the next to the last question at this link: https://www.hawkeyenation.com/wrestling/tom-brands-media-day-press-conference-transcript-video

Edited November 6, 2018 by TBar1977

[pish6969 293]

As bad as it looks and sounds like. I can’t imagine any coach ducking someone week 1.

I don’t buy the Junior Worlds excuse. I’m thinking Warner has minor/nagging injury and wants another weak to heal.

If this was a month or so into season, I’d call DUCKJOB but not in this case IMO


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[Gantry 1,872]

Not sure why you quoted me TBar, as your reply doesn't refute anything I said.   No outcome for him, even getting pinned, hurts him in terms of seedings.    Perhaps we have different definitions of ducking, but it's clear to me that he isn't doing to to protect anything.  Plus Conel probably isn't even wrestling and it sounds like he's not wrestling the cupcake match as well that weekend. 

Why isn't he wrestling?  I'm not sure, but I'm guessing Brands has a reason or Warner isn't ready to go out there yet for a mental/physical/whatever reason.  But I don't see it as a duck, I see it as Jacob Warner not being ready for whatever reason.  I agree bringing up Junior Worlds makes no sense, for whatever that is worth...

 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Gantry

[TBar1977 4,498]

8 minutes ago, Gantry said:

Not sure why you quoted me TBar, as your reply doesn't refute anything I said.   No outcome for him, even getting pinned, hurts him in terms of seedings.    Perhaps we have different definitions of ducking, but it's clear to me that he isn't doing to to protect anything.  Plus Conel probably isn't even wrestling and it sounds like he's not wrestling the cupcake match as well that weekend. 

Why isn't he wrestling?  I'm not sure, but I'm guessing Brands has a reason or Warner isn't ready to go out there yet for a mental/physical/whatever reason.  But I don't see it as a duck, I see it as Jacob Warner not being ready for whatever reason.  I agree bringing up Junior Worlds makes no sense, for whatever that is worth...

 

Nothing negative intended. We agree much more than disagree.

[Gantry 1,872]

4 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Nothing negative intended. We agree much more than disagree.

[hammerlockthree 2,587]

Its no joke that you need time to unwind after peaking for Worlds at a time most guys are just training and putting money in the bank, Gabe Dean thought it landed him in a slump. But if that really is the reason...i don't think its a one match break situation. 

If the kid really needs to decompress and get his head on straight, that takes time. 

[nom 1,186]

‘I’m healthy but I think I will lose since I don’t think I’m capable of beating this wrestler right now (for reason X) so I’m not going to wrestle him.’

Call it ducking or avoiding a loss.  Ducking has more negative connotations, admittedly.  But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck .... well ....

 

 

[headshuck 2,588]

Essentially killing off National Duals was a duck of another color.

[Perry 1,423]

46 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Essentially killing off National Duals was a duck of another color.

Orange?