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treep2000

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This whole situation at tOSU, the past few years has raised the issue to the forefront (in my mind at least).  The issue:  What to do with those guys who are really 215lbs.  They are too big for 197, and most likely, too small for HWT.  Snyder was an exception, well... because, Snyder IS the exception.  

But... Kollin Moore's performance thus far at U23's is at 97kg, or 213lbs.  He is a far superior wrestler at this weight than what we see/saw at NCAA's.  He lost to Conel twice at 197, and then at U23's Trials, absolutely mauls Conel at 213lbs.  

The science shows that our athletes are getting generally bigger, and by adding this ~210-215lb weight class, a few additional purposes are served:

* Those guys that play football (skill positions mainly) that are too small to wrestle HWT can now have a weight class to call home. 

* An 11th weight class breaks all the needs for the stupid tiebreakers.  

Rant over... 

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I think Kollin Moore could compete very well at 285.  I think Anthony Cassar will be very successful this year at heavyweight weighing 228#s  - it would not surprise me to see him be a title contender.  Last year aside from Snyder you had Kasper from Duke taking 4th while weighing 225 or less.  D White OSU bulked up from 197 and had a very good year.  I think he has a good shot at AAing this year.

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Sure.. but that's assuming we accept the status quo.  What would be holding this idea/proposition back?  $$?  Will?  Initiative?  It makes all the sense in the world to NOT have an even number of weight classes when the concept of a dual exists.  It makes all the sense in the world to continue to broaden the appeal of the sport.  

Kerkvliet fits this size/weight.  Braxton Amos currently does as well (220 high schooler).  

Forcing a kid that's 215 to give up 70lbs and then say "that's just the rules, deal with it" sounds like the easy way out.  :-|

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I like it.

Sell it to the NCAA though.

They have proven they are not interested in making changes that benefit the sport as a whole (feeding the Olympic weight).

They already have "tiebreakers" for duals.....that don't matter.

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35 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Sure.. but that's assuming we accept the status quo.  What would be holding this idea/proposition back?  $$?  Will?  Initiative?  It makes all the sense in the world to NOT have an even number of weight classes when the concept of a dual exists.  It makes all the sense in the world to continue to broaden the appeal of the sport.  

Kerkvliet fits this size/weight.  Braxton Amos currently does as well (220 high schooler).  

Forcing a kid that's 215 to give up 70lbs and then say "that's just the rules, deal with it" sounds like the easy way out.  :-|

1. Money.  Expanding rosters is unlikely.  

2.  Since expanding is unlikely.  Just move up the current weight class 10 lbs and stretch out the weights below it a few pounds each.  205, 190, 175 instead of 174, 184, 197.

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I don't like the idea of an 11th weight.

But I would support reshuffling the weights. 

Which brings us back to the age old question...

- Do you divide the weights so that each bracket contains roughly 10% of all college wrestlers.

- Do you divide the weights so that the jump from one weights so that the jump from one class to the next is reasonable and not be concerned with athlete distribution? 

And this debate ultimately always seems to come down to how low the first weight class should be...

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Wrestlers that would make that 215 weight would deplete the talent from heavyweight. Guys like Tommy Rowlands, Pat Cummins, Jacob Kasper, and Kyle Snyder and many others (those come to mind first) not only compete, but are capable of winning heavyweight. Now you take those guys out and half the talent is gone. The American average size may be larger, but wrestlers tend to be smaller. Go to a college open and you will see most brackets 141 to 165 are huge brackets. Heavyweight is ussually one of the smallest. No sense in watering down the weight with fewer participants and is the least popular.

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2 hours ago, treep2000 said:

]

The science shows that our athletes are getting generally bigger, and by adding this ~210-215lb weight class, a few additional purposes are served:

Where does it say that wrestlers are getting bigger? Last time I checked, 215 and HWT in high school wrestling are tougher spots to fill than 125.  Where is this, "the science" that you are talking about.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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1 hour ago, jchapman said:

Get rid of 125, it waters down the 133 class.  The very best champions at 125 I think could compete at 133.


Its not the same though. Kasper wasn't even competing at a high level at 184 until he jumped to heavy. If 125 and 133 merged you would add Lee, Rivera, Bresser, Picc, Moisey to an already stacked weight class. For heavy you take out White, Hemida, Probably Casser to go 220. Your top 8 is Stoll- Iowa, Jordan Wood- Lehigh, Billy Miller- Virginia Tech, Jere Heino- Campbell, Conan Jennings N'western, Matt Voss George Mason, Cory Daniel- North Carolina. Then throw in Gable, but otherwise this is not a very exciting weight class I am sorry to say. I can see where adding a 215 would be worse for the sport.

 

Edited by russelscout

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3 hours ago, Billyhoyle said:

Where does it say that wrestlers are getting bigger? Last time I checked, 215 and HWT in high school wrestling are tougher spots to fill than 125.  Where is this, "the science" that you are talking about.  

You know...  ALL the "science" that the pundits and reporters suggest in terms of how large we are as a society... our young adults today... 

Seriously... I don't have proof, was speaking in hyperbole, and don't have enough energy or care to drum it up... so...  if you wanna play "I gotcha" or whatever... cool.  I don't give a rat's behind... 

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15 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

You know...  ALL the "science" that the pundits and reporters suggest in terms of how large we are as a society... our young adults today... 

Seriously... I don't have proof, was speaking in hyperbole, and don't have enough energy or care to drum it up... so...  if you wanna play "I gotcha" or whatever... cool.  I don't give a rat's behind... 

So you said "the science shows..." and expected us to understand that it was simply exaggerated? To say that science showed something would  mean there would be evidence but there is none in this case or atleast to your knowledge there is none. Thats just a straight lie man. A lie to sway people's opinion. Please don't do that anymore. It's not good.

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18 minutes ago, russelscout said:

So you said "the science shows..." and expected us to understand that it was simply exaggerated? To say that science showed something would  mean there would be evidence but there is none in this case or atleast to your knowledge there is none. Thats just a straight lie man. A lie to sway people's opinion. Please don't do that anymore. It's not good.

Bwahahahahahaha... Whatever.  I count more "lies" on this forum than I have ever seen.  Its a conversation.  Besides... If I had the desire to rebuke your argument, i would and would drum up said statistics that show that this generation of high school aged children are in fact larger than previous generations... But i would rather drink my beer, enjoy my evening, and have OCD people with nothing better to do than dissect everyones comments and thoughts go absolutely nuts for not being 100% precise.  Have fun with that... 

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5 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Bwahahahahahaha... Whatever.  I count more "lies" on this forum than I have ever seen.  Its a conversation.  Besides... If I had the desire to rebuke your argument, i would and would drum up said statistics that show that this generation of high school aged children are in fact larger than previous generations... But i would rather drink my beer, enjoy my evening, and have OCD people with nothing better to do than dissect everyones comments and thoughts go absolutely nuts for not being 100% precise.  Have fun with that... 

So... you want to start a movement, but are not willing to actually back your statements with facts. How ambitious of you. I really don't see that many lies on this site since most ppl offer opinion here. You did "rebuke" my statement though. You essentially said, "I would totally make you look bad if i came back with my statistics, and they would totally prove my point, and serve all you suckers but I don't even care so you're lucky." See that was hyperbole.

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4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

If 285 was filled with a bunch of Brock Lesnar looking types I would agree with adding a 220ish weight class, however it's not. IMO Kollin Moore would tear things up at 285 and probably place just as high, if not higher at NCAAs than he has/will at 197.

Your logic is solid.

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I suggest a different movement. Guys who are cutting a lot of weight to make 197, dont. Lift, bulk up, pack on muscle and wrestle heavyweight. You'll be stronger, faster, more agile,  and more technical than the heavyweights right now. Big strong athletic 285s like Adam Coon are the exception, not the rule when it comes to those weighing in at the top of 285.

 

Furthermore I honestly think had Kyle Snyder sucked down to 197 during his last 3 seasons, while I do think he would have still won NCAAs all 3 seasons, I also think he would not have been as dominant and would have had some struggles. At 285 outside of Gwiz and Coon, Synder was pretty much in cruise control.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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7 hours ago, jchapman said:

Get rid of 125, it waters down the 133 class.  The very best champions at 125 I think could compete at 133.

You are absolutely clueless if you think that is a fair comparison. 

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