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VakAttack

Ramos vs. Stieber (SPOILERS)

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Agree with matcat11 and npope. Graf and Ramos were tied 1-1 with short time remaining in the 3rd. Graf got in deep on a single-leg and then got Ramos' leg in the air. When he tried to bring him to the mat, Ramos countered with a standing switch to stop the TD. Graf was able to hang on to the leg initially, but Ramos worked around to get the TD with about 0:15 seconds left in the match.

 

Great counter by Ramos to get the win, but Graf was in it the whole way - could easily be a different outcome if they meet again. Maybe they'll get the #2 and #3 seeds and we'll get to see a rematch.

 

Also possible Ramos was looking past Graff to the Steiber rematch, which Ive seen many times produce an upset or a much closer match than expected . I'm pretty sure Ramos and his coaches will prepare a different mind set if he faces Graf before Steiber at NCAA'S .

That's possible, but I don't think there's a large gap between Ramos and Graf - since he's gotten his weight under control after dropping to 133. Based on their match this weekend, I'd expect another close bout if they meet again at NCAAs. Ramos would be slightly favored of course, but Graf is capable of winning. Just my humble opinion.

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Former National Champs Perspective on Stieber v Ramos (culled from another site):

 

This performance with Ramos reflects why Logan Stieber is great.

 

Ramos has adjusted his game and strategy to beat Logan Stieber and in the process has improved a lot. Ramos wrestled the period cautiously and was hoping to achieve two things 1)fatigue Logan 2) not allow a deep finishable shot.

 

Second period was telling. Logan went for his crab ride. Ramos was ready and executed a foot grab and hips out of Logan’s lap to create space and promptly escaped. Second period ended much the same as the first, attempting to get Logan fatigued just a bit to affect position.

 

Third period escape, ok, now the pace of the wrestling should pick up and it did, but it was Logan initiating the increase while maintaining outstanding position which reflected 1st period quality. Meaning that the stuff he was executing looked as clean and fatigueless as a first period attack. Also, I believe Ramos got to Logan’s body one time and was unable to improve. He owns this counter position, which is one in which the offensive wrestler typically has an advantage. If you remember, he fended off an attack this summer against an international opponent and pinned him.

 

Lastly, the single leg attack worked because Ramos’ stance was fatiguing just a little bit and provides the eye of a needle opening that Logan needed to attack.

 

These are two tremendously talented wrestlers & even though Ramos is 0-4 vs Stieber, I am not convinced that OSU fans aren't secretly afraid that one tiny misstep or flaw in position could be a factor in that record becoming 1-4. Anything can happen....Just look at last years Finals. JO was the favorite & Stieber got him (imo it was a td but the ref didn't call it so it wasn't) so I'm sure the OSU fans are hoping history doesn't repeat itself while Iowa fans do......

 

In the end we are all the real winners for having the chance to watch these great competitors go at it multiple times. Their match ups are just as good (actually WAY more action even in a low scoring match) as the hype surrounding Dake & DT.

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Both wrestlers were very tentative in that match.. In my opinion, Ramos will never win a close match like that against Stieber especially if he never records a takedown. Unfortunately, I'm not buying the whole sick bit. If he was sick it was a match that worked in his favor for lack of activity by both. Stieber had some good shots and decent opportunities to finish but did not. Ramos looked better on the bottom than in recent meetings but you can't ever relax against stieber on bottom. This is probably going to piss some people off, but I honestly don't see Ramos beating Stieber. Stieber is a little too crafty and better on the mat generally speaking. Ramos's stare factor and aggressiveness is something that Stieber is accustomed too. Hope to see more action in a few weeks given Ramos gets by Graff.

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Who would be a legit threat to either one of these guys? Who do you not want to see on Ramos or Stiebers side of the bracket if you are rooting for them?

 

I think you must have missed the Graff-Ramos match to now think that no challengers exist.

 

Ramos only won that match on a scramble at the very end of the match off a shot that Graff took (Ramos took none for the entire match). Ramos won fair and square, but if he is going to use that strategy to win in the future, i.e. wait around and win the scramble at the end then I would suggest that 1) he and Graff are about even and 2) he will split those matches with Graff.

 

Where in my post does it say "I think one way or the other" - only asking a general question.

 

Thank you for the anser that you think Graff which is the obvious - any other tough challengers do

you think!

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I dont really understand all the back and forth.

 

Ramos had Stieber at his most vulnerable point in nearly a year and FAILED TO DO ANYTHING.

 

The best Ramos can hope for is another OT loss. (which is improved, but Stieber is a freak, and there is no reason to think his future improvement wont further the "gap" between the two)

 

w.s

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I agree that Graff will give either Ramos or Stieber a great match. He didn't look as gassed due to a hard cut as he did against, say, PSU.

 

That said, and I'm probably rehashing an old topic here, I don't understand the cut to 133 mid-season. I would think that a guy of Graff's caliber, already a 2x AA, has to be shooting for a title and would consider anything less a personal disappointment. In other words, I can't see him making a weight change to improve his chances to place 2nd-4th or even 5th again. Is his road to a title really that much easier at 133 than at 141? I believe it's harder, especially considering the cut and the fact that the Ramos that Graff beat in the past is obviously quite improved. I'd rather wrestle Maple at my natural weight than Logan after a hard cut, and as for the Stiebers, it's not even close, I'd much rather face Hunter than Logan. Not to mention Ramos is now also in the way.

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I don't think Graff matches up well with Logan. He's too long. Also, it's very hard to prepare for Logan's top game if you haven't faced it before. But Graff is very good. In addition, Ramos is likely to meet him in the semis and can't overlook him. Therefore, he can't strictly focus on Logan.

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Who would be a legit threat to either one of these guys? Who do you not want to see on Ramos or Stiebers side of the bracket if you are rooting for them?

 

I think you must have missed the Graff-Ramos match to now think that no challengers exist.

 

 

Where in my post does it say "I think one way or the other" - only asking a general question.

 

Thank you for the anser that you think Graff which is the obvious - any other tough challengers do

you think!

 

You asked a question - you got an answer. What's your point? If you saw the Graff-Ramos match and are asking that question then you are biased, blind, and fishing. If you didn't see the match and asked that question then you got the answer you asked for. Geeezzz :roll:

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I don't think Graff matches up well with Logan. He's too long. Also, it's very hard to prepare for Logan's top game if you haven't faced it before. But Graff is very good. In addition, Ramos is likely to meet him in the semis and can't overlook him. Therefore, he can't strictly focus on Logan.

 

I think he has enough to keep it close, but I agree that Stieber will be too much. Stieber is basically a better version of Graff in almost every way but size, which is why I asked the question as to why Graff would move down mid-season and make the rough cut to... face Logan and Ramos? I just don't get the logic.

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... why I asked the question as to why Graff would move down mid-season and make the rough cut to... face Logan and Ramos? I just don't get the logic.

 

A long story, but Graff's walking-around weight is about 145 with about 6% body fat. I don't think 133 is that hard of a cut for him. I'm not sure the assumptions that he was having trouble with his weight are accurate. Granted, he didn't look like his typical self in the Conaway match that he lost, but stuff happens sometimes. I've heard nothing from Wisconsin insiders that this was a weight maintenance issue.

 

The notion of 141 came from two motivations from what I have heard from those close to the program. First, he felt he might want to wrestle bigger guys so that when he came back to freestyle at 132 he would be more accustomed to seeing the bigger international freestylers that cut down to that weight. Second, Graff was trying to open up some space at 133 on the team this year in case Thielke decided to not red shirt. But Thielke decided to red shirt and Graff took a couple of losses at 141 and the rest is history.

 

I have no idea about how well Graff would do with Stieber - they've never wrestled. But who knows - they are all so good at that level.

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You asked a question - you got an answer. What's your point? If you saw the Graff-Ramos match and are asking that question then you are biased, blind, and fishing. If you didn't see the match and asked that question then you got the answer you asked for. Geeezzz :roll:

 

No more Caffeine for you

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