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On 1/27/2019 at 8:36 PM, NJDan said:

Isn't it the case that UFC does not like wrestling-- or fighters who win by wrestling? Isn't this what kept Askren out of the UFC for years? It could be that his style follows the money. Of course, getting knocked out is also a bad financial decision.

Yes and no... Matt Hughes was a former AA from Eastern Illinois (RIP to a program that was cut 10 years too short before IL took off [thanks to Sean Bormet @ IL teams & Overtime]) and Randy Couture are both in the UFC hall of fame I think? And they touted Cain Velasquez and Lesnar (though mainly WWF hype) so I don't think they shy away from it, but at the same time knockouts sell PPVs and they are a business.

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1 hour ago, bnwtwg said:

Yes and no... Matt Hughes was a former AA from Eastern Illinois (RIP to a program that was cut 10 years too short before IL took off [thanks to Sean Bormet @ IL teams & Overtime]) and Randy Couture are both in the UFC hall of fame I think? And they touted Cain Velasquez and Lesnar (though mainly WWF hype) so I don't think they shy away from it, but at the same time knockouts sell PPVs and they are a business.

Well a better way to say it is Dana White hates Askeens mostly wet blanket technique of mostly embarrassing fighters by our classing them on mat work.  If it goes to the mat instead of the ground and pound style of fighting Askren’s tends to “play with his food” and just take “pitter-patter” shots that do no damage.  This maybe a impressive wrestling/BJJ technique but it doesn’t sell to the average fan well. White also did not take kindly to Askrens social media comments towards the UFC and him at time, although White has similar comments that aren’t much better.  With Askren toning down his social media talk lately and the UFC in need of another talkative “heel” type character to promote fights eboth sides have reconciled enough to give Askren a shot in the UFC.  Not sure it last long though if Ben doesn’t at least become a little more active on the ground.  Winning helps but Dana’s been know to cut “boring” fighters before or at least let them sit in mid-card land until their contracts ends. 

Edited by MadMardigain

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Sooooo like I said, they want winners but they promote knockout artists as their business has grown? Why do you think Aaron Pico gave up his Olympic-level (in most countries outside of US or Russia, and *almost* in the US) wrestling and went to a more "flamboyant" style?

I hate to say it. Hughes was a relic, but at least people watch his knockouts of Frank Trigg and Carlos Newton. And then MMA caught up to the wrestlers. 

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I would think if Pico uses his wrestling (and submissions when there), that would really open up his striking game.

Maybe not the best analogy, but look how Khabib was able to out-strike Conor on their feet, probably because Conor was so wary of Khabib's takedowns and vicious ground and pound. Before that fight nearly everyone was saying how Conor was the superior striker and Khabib was the takedown and ground and pound expert. (The curveball can set up the fastball and the fastball can set up the curveball.)

It also looks like Pico would have a vicious ground and pound once he secures a takedown. I still think Pico will be a black belt mixed martial artist and an eventual mma champion.

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It’s actually a great analogy and exactly what he should do. He’s trying to be too flashy and live up to his hype, but has been humbled enough now that he better worry about just winning because the hype has, to some degree, gotten derailed. Probably the best thing that could happen to him. 

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It’s one thing to get hit with boxing gloves on and another to get hit with MMA gloves. It does seem like he’s looking for highlight knockouts but his chin is suspect and he’s getting knocked out. His trainers should be fired for the game plan they have used in every fight. 4 wins by KO and 2 by getting KO. Take your opponent down and strike on the ground.

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Back when people were hyping Pico, I was very much not on board. I am old enough to know that life isn't a video game.

But now I'm ready to say Pico's being undervalued. He's only 22, and in MMA there's a lot to learn. Unless he has no chin, he'll be fine. (He's only been knocked out once, so it's hardly time to panic.) Where are his future rivals right now? Not near the top of a Bellator card, that's for sure.

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10 hours ago, Katie said:

Back when people were hyping Pico, I was very much not on board. I am old enough to know that life isn't a video game.

But now I'm ready to say Pico's being undervalued. He's only 22, and in MMA there's a lot to learn. Unless he has no chin, he'll be fine. (He's only been knocked out once, so it's hardly time to panic.) Where are his future rivals right now? Not near the top of a Bellator card, that's for sure.

I thought Pico got knocked out last week, making it 2 times he's been canned?

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19 hours ago, Frank_Rizzo said:

I feel really bad for Pico.  I question the advice he's received and the direction he's taken in both wrestling and MMA.  Now that he's been knocked out badly, who knows what his jaw has left in it?    

 

He's a dumb kid. He's letting "machismo" interfere in actually WINNING fights. He wants to knock people out, to look impressive. Can't blame him really, but if he just stuck to ground n pound he'd probably be undefeated.

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4 hours ago, TobusRex said:

 

He's a dumb kid. He's letting "machismo" interfere in actually WINNING fights. He wants to knock people out, to look impressive. Can't blame him really, but if he just stuck to ground n pound he'd probably be undefeated.

I doubt he consciously made the decision to look impressive. 

He was standing in there with Corrales, landing unobstructed body blows with his left hand—but he erred by neglecting to defend himself on his left side. Simple mistake.

There’s a lot he needs to learn. Like I said, he’s only 22. He’ll be back. 

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On 11/27/2018 at 9:35 AM, Housebuye said:

Guys. Stop arguing about nothing. 

Pico isn’t competing in wrestling seriously until 2020 trials at the earliest. He does train wrestling to keep his skills sharp, periodically doing so under Valentin with other hammers.  

Pico will never wrestle competitively again and that is just fine.  He has a 7 figure contract.  He is doing what he should be doing - training with world level people for his next MMA fight.

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On 2/4/2019 at 7:39 PM, Katie said:

Back when people were hyping Pico, I was very much not on board. I am old enough to know that life isn't a video game.

Could you elaborate on the bold portion please? I'm not too sure what Pico in MMA has to do with video games. 

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26 minutes ago, GranbyTroll said:

Could you elaborate on the bold portion please? I'm not too sure what Pico in MMA has to do with video games. 

Sure.

If I remember correctly, before the 2016 Olympics, there was lots of talk of Pico being the greatest MMA prospect of all time, of him being a future Olympic wrestling champ, of his boxing being better than his wrestling, etc etc.

So Pico’s hype, I thought, was built on grandiose hopes or expectations.  His hype, I believed, lacked an adequate connection to reality — sort of like a video game.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Katie said:

Sure.

If I remember correctly, before the 2016 Olympics, there was lots of talk of Pico being the greatest MMA prospect of all time, of him being a future Olympic wrestling champ, of his boxing being better than his wrestling, etc etc.

So Pico’s hype, I thought, was built on grandiose hopes or expectations.  His hype, I believed, lacked an adequate connection to reality — sort of like a video game.

 

 

But why a video game rather than a book, movie or TV show? All of those media can be either grounded in reality or fantastic. I'm not quite sure I understand your point yet. 

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1 hour ago, GranbyTroll said:

But why a video game rather than a book, movie or TV show? All of those media can be either grounded in reality or fantastic. I'm not quite sure I understand your point yet. 

It’s okay.  

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On 2/7/2019 at 9:36 PM, Jaroslav Hasek said:

every time I see hype which I consider to be disproportionate, I too remember that life is not a video game. thankfully, I am old enough to have that ability, and it keeps me grounded. 

I too always used to say that life is not a game of pong.

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Getting knocked out kind of ruins your chances of doing the ground and pound or even winning.  Winning is the thing, it is much better than losing, and way better than getting knocked out.   Looking forward to the Askren match coming up.

mspart

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2 minutes ago, mspart said:

Getting knocked out kind of ruins your chances of doing the ground and pound or even winning.  Winning is the thing, it is much better than losing, and way better than getting knocked out.   Looking forward to the Askren match coming up.

mspart

Will be interesting to see when Pico fights again.

Yes, I'm looking forward to Askren's debut in the UFC. Many are saying that Robbie Lawler is really good against wrestlers and that he can also throw bombs. He's also a former champ, I think. 

Doesn't sound like Askren will out-strike him (hey, you never know) but want to see if Askren can out-grapple Robbie and get him in a nice submission hold. I'll gladly take a ground and pound victory for Ben too, with all due respect to Lawler.   

Gonna be a great card on March 2. 

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