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Tommy Brands Challenge of a Lifetime

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I don't see Iowa as a step up from Ohio State as a coach. Ryan has proven that he can compete for and win national championships at Ohio State. I think that outside of the wrestling world, Ohio State is a much bigger national brand with a much higher ceiling. Maybe he's a step up from Brands as a Head Coach, but I don't think he's leaving anytime soon.

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Yeah, I am not sold that Ryan is a better coach and I am also not sold that Iowa is a better spot to be a coach. 

TOSU has all the resources and funding that a coach could possibly want.  Ryan made over $450k for the2015-2016 season. Excepting the giant fan base(relative At least there is wrestling on big ten network! wrestling standards) I don't see any other thing that makes Iowa stand out unless coaching at his Alma Mater is important to him. 

TOSU is located in a hotbed for wrestling.  They just built a brand new, state of the art, stand alone facility. Their RTC is STRONG.  They have, quite possibly, the strongest Athletic Department's full backing. 

Simply put, tOSU is a dream job.  Iowa, on the other hand, isn't the draw it once was and NO other coach would change that. In fact, I truly believe the Brands are the best fit out of any coaches available, including Sanderson.  Two sleeping Giants have awoke in PSU and tOSU and kids have realized they have options like Cornell or UofM to get great educations and still reach their wrestling goals. 

Keeping Iowa top 5 has been a great accomplishment considering where Zalesky left them. Having them poised to win one over the next couple of years is even more impressive. 

Dynasties don't last forever, but I don't see anyone out there that would be more dedicated to keeping Iowa near the top and the few that could MAYBE do it have jobs at places I don't see why they would possibly want to leave!

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11 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Keeping Iowa top 5 has been a great accomplishment considering where Zalesky left them. Having them poised to win one over the next couple of years is even more impressive. 

I find that pretty disrespectful to Zalesky considering the fact that Brands' results have not been all that different from Zalesky's.

Brands returning to Iowa was a shot in the arm that brought a few national titles to the school, but since then things have leveled back out to pretty much where they were before kicking out Zalesky.

The fact is you dont know how things would have panned out for Iowa and Zalesky had he been given a few more years.

With that said, Brands didnt have to follow up Dan Gable as HC where as Zalesky did.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2004-2005 Zalesky went 10-5 in duals, 4th in Big Ten tourney and 7th at NCAA's. Outside of Brands first year he has had no year like that. The trend was down when Zalesky was there and it may be easy to argue otherwise now since Iowa cut Zalesky before it got to bad, but at the time it was clear to see. Iowa has been stagnant around 2-4 for the last several years and are showing signs to contend the next few years. IDK how you can see that as leveled back out to Zalesky level, but I guess thats just my opinion.

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8 minutes ago, russelscout said:

2004-2005 Zalesky went 10-5 in duals, 4th in Big Ten tourney and 7th at NCAA's. Outside of Brands first year he has had no year like that. The trend was down when Zalesky was there and it may be easy to argue otherwise now since Iowa cut Zalesky before it got to bad, but at the time it was clear to see. Iowa has been stagnant around 2-4 for the last several years and are showing signs to contend the next few years. IDK how you can see that as leveled back out to Zalesky level, but I guess thats just my opinion.

So basically Zalesky was fired solely because of the 2004-05 season where Iowa placed 7th? Remove that season and again their results have been awfully similar.

IMO had Zalesky never been canned Iowa would not have those those 3 titles in 08,09,10 (dual recruiting classes) - but in 2018-19 would probably be somewhere similar to where they are now and a 2-4 ranked team.JMO.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

So basically Zalesky was fired solely because of the 2004-05 season where Iowa placed 7th? Remove that season and again their results have been awfully similar.

The reason I bring up that season was it was the only year I could find the dual record. Iowa was losing duals other years too under Zalesky, to teams like N'western, Penn St., Wisconsin, Michigan, and Minny. This was at a time when the BIG12 may have been the toughest conference. Now Iowa rarely takes losses like that, and Big10 is far and away the toughest conference. 

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2 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

I think Zalesky was also hurt by the 2006 Big Ten finish. 6th and no champs. following that 7th place NCAA finish and I think there was an 8th in there as well....fan base and admin was ready for a change. 

 

Zalesky and Brands were/are held to different standards.

Zalesky was held to the "1st place or No place standard."

Brands is held to the "Amongst the top teams is good enough standard."

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32 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I find that pretty disrespectful to Zalesky considering the fact that Brands' results have not been all that different from Zalesky's.

Brands returning to Iowa was a shot in the arm that brought a few national titles to the school, but since then things have leveled back out to pretty much where they were before kicking out Zalesky.

The fact is you dont know how things would have panned out for Iowa and Zalesky had he been given a few more years.

With that said, Brands didnt have to follow up Dan Gable as HC where as Zalesky did.

Not even remotely accurate. Zalesky was losing to the likes of MSU and Northwestern at the end. 

2005-2006 was actually his last year and they actually took 6th at B1Gs and went 11-7 during a time where PSU and tOSU were still "sleeping". 

 

The worst Iowa has done at B1Gs under Brands is 3rd.  And that includes his 1st year where many of his "combined" recruits had to eat a year of eligibility. 

 

Lastly, paint a picture in whichever way you want, but Iowa was trending downward at the end of Zalesky. Meanwhile,  dislike Brands all you want, but he is very OBVIOUSLY trending upward with Lee alone and the likes of Marinelli, Kemerer(especially if he gets a 6th year), Marinelli, Warner, Cass, Murin and maybe even little Brands bolster that even further. 

Simply put, Zalesky was in over his head BEFORE the landscape changed and he was coaching at the end of the "come to Iowa if you want to win" era. 

Seriously, if you truly want to be objective, go look at an Iowa media guide and watch what Iowa did in the mid-early 2000's right at Zalesky's end. Look at the competition then. After that, look at Brands past few years and the juggernaughts he has been up against.  I would argue he has been incredibly consistent while Zalesky showed a considerable drop.   The problem for Brands is 2 programs finally realized their potential and that potential already matches Iowa in its hey day. 

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3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Zalesky and Brands were/are held to different standards.

Zalesky was held to the "1st place or No place standard."

Brands is held to the "Amongst the top teams is good enough standard."

With Brands, Iowa is Amongst the top teams, and a title seems possible. Although it would be a big reach, its enough to keep it interesting for Iowa fans. They remain in the discussion every year since Brands has been there. If Iowa took a loss to Wisconsin, Ohio St., Penn. St., Michigan, Okie St, and N'western throughout the year like they did when Zalesky was there, I think attitudes would change quick. Thats the difference for me.

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9 minutes ago, russelscout said:

With Brands, Iowa is Amongst the top teams, and a title seems possible. Although it would be a big reach, its enough to keep it interesting for Iowa fans. They remain in the discussion every year since Brands has been there. If Iowa took a loss to Wisconsin, Ohio St., Penn. St., Michigan, Okie St, and N'western throughout the year like they did when Zalesky was there, I think attitudes would change quick. Thats the difference for me.

Teams like Wisconsin and NWestern were much stronger then than they are now.

As for the others Iowa has taken losses to tOSU, PSU, Mich - as recently as last year!

My main point is simply that Zalesky had to go up against much higher expectations than Brands does. That is simply undeniable.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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7 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

The NCAA results speak for themselves and quite frankly are all that should matter.

We have constant discussions on how duals dont matter, and quite frankly they don't!

Chalk it up however you want but the results of the 2 coaches have been awfully similar.

I think for me they do. Iowa fans also have the highest dual attendance almost every year. To all those people showing up, those duals mean something. I don't think people show up because duals mean nothing. You will never agree with me. Your evaluation  for similarity is based only on the NCAA's. Brands still owns an advantage there but apparently not enough? Brands owns a huge advantage in dual record and Big Ten Placement, but you have decided that doesn't matter. I think it does. So agree to disagree? You think Brands and Zalesky  are close, but even you would have to agree Brands is slightly better by your own analysis. I think Brands is a lot better. 

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5 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I think for me they do. Iowa fans also have the highest dual attendance almost every year. To all those people showing up, those duals mean something. I don't think people show up because duals mean nothing. You will never agree with me. Your evaluation  for similarity is based only on the NCAA's. Brands still owns an advantage there but apparently not enough? Brands owns a huge advantage in dual record and Big Ten Placement, but you have decided that doesn't matter. I think it does. So agree to disagree? You think Brands and Zalesky  are close, but even you would have to agree Brands is slightly better by your own analysis. I think Brands is a lot better. 

I would say yes Brands has has slightly better results, however Brands was given a lot more leeway and held to an lower standard enabling him to be more "successful."

I think Zalesky was/is just as capable of a coach as Brands. Who knows how things would have gone had he been given the chance. IMO Iowa would not have won those 3 NCAA titles, but beyond that they would be right were it is right now with Zalesky as a 2-4 top team year in year out.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Actually, Wisconsin and Northwestern had their best runs when Brands was coaching Iowa with guys like Graff and Herbert. 

 

Also, let's not twist context. PSU, tOSU and Michigan are literal monsters compared to what they were during the end of Zalesky's tenure. 

With that said, you want to only look at a very limited number set to keep your argument in tact. So be it.  But, to be truly genuine, look at Iowa's roster at the end of Zalesky's run. Then look at Iowa's now.  Excepting Perry, the cupboard was bare and the development was declining rapidly. 

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Teams like Wisconsin and NWestern were much stronger then than they are now.

As for the others Iowa has taken losses to tOSU, PSU, Mich - as recently as last year!

My main point is simply that Zalesky had to go up against much higher expectations than Brands does. That is simply undeniable.

Zalesky lost to all those teams plus a few, Brands has not. You are downplaying the significance of those dual losses. I remember very clearly the feeling when watching those matches on IPTV. It was upsetting, and I think those were a large factor in Zalesky's dismissal. 

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5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I would say yes Brands has has slightly better results, however Brands was given a lot more leeway and held to an lower standard enabling him to be more "successful."

I think Zalesky was/is just as capable of a coach as Brands. Who knows how things would have gone had he been given the chance. IMO Iowa would not have won those 3 NCAA titles, but beyond that they would be right were it is right now with Zalesky as a 2-4 top team year in year out.

Do you also think Zalesky would have improved significantly in duals and his Big 10 tourney performances? 

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I know why Zalesky was dismissed. I'm simply saying that Brands has not been held to the same standard. It all boils down to NCAA titles.

Zalesky wasnt winning enough of them. Keep in mind Zalesky followed up Dan Gable as HC. Iowa was coming off one of the most dominating dynasties in all of American sports. You can dissect it all you want but really thats what it all boils down to.

 

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Just now, russelscout said:

Do you also think Zalesky would have improved significantly in duals and his Big 10 tourney performances? 

Yes. I think he would have done better than his worst season at Iowa. I think if he was still at Iowa today, Iowa would be a top 2-4 team like it is today.

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20 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes. I think he would have done better than his worst season at Iowa. I think if he was still at Iowa today, Iowa would be a top 2-4 team like it is today.

LOL, Zalesky was not getting it done, a change was needed for sure. He would be hanging around the 7-10 range if still at Iowa. What has he done at OSU? Not much, an occasional decent guy here or there and during a lot of his time he has had little competition in the west for recruits. CA schools had dropped the sport or were way down. ASU almost had dropped the sport, Wyoming was not very good then. It was literally them and BSU out there. If he was that great of a coach he would have gotten more done there. 

Edited by BLT

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