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Tommy Brands Challenge of a Lifetime

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43 minutes ago, BLT said:

LOL, Zalesky was not getting it done, a change was needed for sure. He would be hanging around the 7-10 range if still at Iowa. What has he done at OSU? Not much, an occasional decent guy here or there and during a lot of his time he has had little competition in the west for recruits. CA schools had dropped the sport or were way down. ASU almost had dropped the sport, Wyoming was not very good then. It was literally them and BSU out there. If he was that great of a coach he would have gotten more done there. 

if you're not one of the big time programs an occasional decent guy is what comes out of most schools.

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

What is stopping OrSt from being a big time program? or even top 20? could it be coaching?

Are you saying Jim Zalesky is a bad coach?

Wow I love the loyalty these Hawkeyes show to their own...

"Once a Hawkeye.. always a Hawkeye... except when you're not"

Do you think OregonState would be a top 20 team if Tom Brands went there?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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49 minutes ago, wrestlingzen said:

Sure, why not. Though I'd add: 1) it's a public community forum; 2) don't click a link if you don't want to read something; and 3) maybe get a sense of humor. 

Don't bother.  These are the same people that leave angry replies in the comment section of articles from The Onion. 

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Are you saying Jim Zalesky is a bad coach?

Wow I love the loyalty these Hawkeyes show to their own...

I am not going to call Jim Zalesky an elite coach when his current results suggest he is not just because he is a former Hawkeye, just like I won't for Barry Davis, Duane Goldman, or whoever. My loyalty to the Iowa Hawkeyes, doesn't mean I shouldn't  evaluate a persons performance critically. 

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23 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

if you're not one of the big time programs an occasional decent guy is what comes out of most schools.

Strange...I don't remember PSU fans complaining about Sunderland before he has canned.  It took a wealthy donor to see the lack of results (while everyone else was quiet) and get the university to make a change.

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6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

I am not going to call Jim Zalesky an elite coach when his current results suggest he is not just because he is a former Hawkeye, just like I won't for Barry Davis, Duane Goldman, or whoever. My loyalty to the Iowa Hawkeyes, doesn't mean I shouldn't  evaluate a persons performance critically. 

Never asked you to call Zalesky an elite level coach. You however did insinuate that the reason OregonState is not top 20 is due to the coaching, thus insinutating hes not a good coach. 

Do you think OregonState would be a top20 if Tom Brands went there?

Where do you think VirginiaTech would be today if Tom Brands never left them?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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4 minutes ago, Boompa said:

Strange...I don't remember PSU fans complaining about Sunderland before he has canned.  It took a wealthy donor to see the lack of results (while everyone else was quiet) and get the university to make a change.

I think the better description of the pre Cael Sanderson PSU era is one of acceptance. Acceptance that what they were was what they'd always be due to the lack of vision required to do what Ira Lubert did in bringing in Sanderson. I viewed Troy for what his results were, which said he was a good but not great coach. Good enough to get to the podium, but not great enough to win titles. Complaining about that never crossed my mind.

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4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Never asked you to call Zalesky an elite level coach. You however did insinuate that the reason OregonState is not top 20 is due to the coaching, thus insinutating hes not a good coach. 

Do you think OregonState would be a top20 if Tom Brands went there?

Where do you think VirginiaTech would be today if Tom Brands never left them?

If you think it has nothing to do with his coaching, what do you think is the cause of OrSt. not being in the top 20?

I do think OrSt would be top20 if Brands was there. 

I think VT would be about where Iowa is right now if T & T were there, minus the 3 titles. 

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Just now, russelscout said:

If you think it has nothing to do with his coaching, what do you think is the cause of OrSt. not being in the top 20?

I do think OrSt would be top20 if Brands was there. 

I think VT would be about where Iowa is right now if T & T were there, minus the 3 titles. 

Just for final clarification, you think VT would be regularly top 2-4 in the country under Tom Brands?

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7 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Are you saying Jim Zalesky is a bad coach?

Wow I love the loyalty these Hawkeyes show to their own...

"Once a Hawkeye.. always a Hawkeye... except when you're not"

Do you think OregonState would be a top 20 team if Tom Brands went there?

Loyalty shouldn't supersede honesty.  I would bet every Hawkeye fan still loves Zalesky for his wrestling.  In fact, I believe most would put him in the top 5 category All Time.  However, that shouldn't influence an opinion of his coaching.

To be clear, I think he is a solid coach.  However, that wasn't, and still isn't, enough for Iowa.  Make no mistake the Brands(s) are the best fit available for Iowa.  They bleed black and gold and are clearly making every attempt possible to stay competitive with PSU and tOSU.  The problem with doing that isn't Brands.  It is expecting a rural, midwest school to be able to compete with 2 massive programs now that the luster of "Iowa Wrestling" is gone.  Make no mistake, that luster was gone before Brands got there.

Simply put, recruiting is more important now than ever before.  Developing NCAA Champs is so much more rare due to kids having access to training/competing that just didn't happen in Gable's time.  Gone are the days of only recruiting "guys that get it".  Add in that the local Iowa talent hasn't been deep and top end for a stretch and that put Iowa even further behind the 8 ball.

On top of it all, you now may have to add Michigan as the final sleeping giant that may now fully wake up.

One thing Iowa has is an incredible(relative to wrestling) fanbase.  This has helped keep them in the mix with funding to the RTC and, what looks to be, a future stand alone facility.  So, with Brands, they will stay in the mix.  But, it would be a challenge for ANY coach to convince a recruit that Iowa is a better location than the national giants in PSU, tOSU and maybe Michigan if Bormet continues his trajectory.....

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3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Just for final clarification, you think VT would be regularly top 2-4 in the country under Tom Brands?

2-4 would be a ton to ask under the current landscape.  I would say 2-8 and similar to Koll at Cornell.  As much as being at Iowa benefits him, I also think it hurts/limits him in some regards.  At VTech he would have made his own brand and continued recruiting like he did early on.  However, without the resources and RTC power, I don't know that VTech is a location that could truly challenge the top 3 on a consistent basis.

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1 minute ago, MSU158 said:

2-4 would be a ton to ask under the current landscape.  I would say 2-8 and similar to Koll at Cornell.  As much as being at Iowa benefits him, I also think it hurts/limits him in some regards.  At VTech he would have made his own brand and continued recruiting like he did early on.  However, without the resources and RTC power, I don't know that VTech is a location that could truly challenge the top 3 on a consistent basis.

Tell that to Russel not me. Hes the one that thinks they would be exactly where Iowa is today.

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Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Tell that to Russel not me. Hes the one that thinks they would be exactly where Iowa is today.

Actually he used the exact word "ABOUT" which is CONSIDERABLY different than exactly........In fact, I would guess his positioning to be very similar to mine.

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8 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Just for final clarification, you think VT would be regularly top 2-4 in the country under Tom Brands?

Yes, I do. The moment Brands went to VT he began to recruit nationally, pulling arguably the #1/#2 guy in Metcalf to a no name college in wrestling. How many coaches today have that kind of pull right off the bat?

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I don't understand why its so hard for Hawkeye fans to accept that Jim Zalesky was held to a higher standard than Tom Brands is. 

Because he wasn't.  You can use the argument that duals don't matter all you want.  They matter at Iowa due to that large and intimate fan base.  Losing to the likes of MSU and Northwestern, while obviously sliding downward at the B1G Tournament mattered.  Especially when Brands was out there to replace him with.

The Brands have been feeling the heat consistently, but they have also been very transparent with their fanbase and have shown the willingness to change how they recruit and even put a TF in Spencer Lee on the mat.  Unlike Zalesky, they are fighting tooth and nail to keep Iowa relevant at the top.....

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