Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Kentucky_Mudflap

Tommy Brands Challenge of a Lifetime

Recommended Posts

They both coached about 10 years at Iowa as of today.

They both won NCAA Championships their first 3 years, then none after that. 

They both won 1 Bigten title after their first three years had ended.  

They both had the same number of individual NCAA Champs or are within 1 of each other. 

I think Brands is slightly better overall, but not as good as his two main competitors, Tom Ryan and, of course, Cael Sanderson. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

They both coached about 10 years at Iowa as of today.

They both won NCAA Championships their first 3 years, then none after that. 

They both won 1 Bigten title after their first three years had ended.  

They both had the same number of individual NCAA Champs or are within 1 of each other. 

I think Brands is slightly better overall, but not as good as his two main competitors, Tom Ryan and, of course, Cael Sanderson. 

Duals? Placement at those Big10 tourneys matter? AA's? None of those things matter apparently. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Duals? Placement at those Big10 tourneys matter? AA's? None of those things matter apparently. 

1st place is all that matters. That's the Iowa Way.

 

To more seriously answer your question.

No. They dont matter.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excluding the Great Spencer Lee, Iowa's technique / brawling style looks like something from the 70's.

Penn State and Ohio State are technically better than Iowa, especially in nuetral. They both have out recruited Iowa obviously. I don't see that trend ending anytime soon.



Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, russelscout said:

Just because there is a high emphasis put on winning doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate their performance as a whole does it? 

 

Last year Michigan beat Iowa in the dual.

Iowa finished ahead of Michigan at NCAA's

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

 

Last year Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll in the dual. Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll and finished ahead of him at Big Ten.

Sam Stoll defeated Nevills at NCAAs and finished ahead of him.

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

 

As for your evaluation of perfomance as a whole... that exactly there goes against EVERYTHING Iowa Wrestling has preeched about for the past 30+ years?

Win you live, Lose you Die. 

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

 

Last year Michigan beat Iowa in the dual.

Iowa finished ahead of Michigan at NCAA's

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

 

Last year Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll in the dual. Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll and finished ahead of him at Big Ten.

Sam Stoll defeated Nevills at NCAAs and finished ahead of him.

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

I would say NCAA's are more important, but those other losses are also matches that mattered. With that school of thought it would be like saying Cael Sanderson won 4 titles, but who cares he never lost? None of those matches mattered anyways. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They really didnt matter. The 4 NCAA titles really is all that mattered. The undefeated thing is really just embellishment.

Kyle Dake is a 4x NCAA Champion. Why is it never mentioned that hes a 3x Conference Champ? Because it doesnt matter.

Do Pat Smith's losses ever really get mentioned? No. All that matters is hes a 4x NCAA Champ.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

 

Last year Michigan beat Iowa in the dual.

Iowa finished ahead of Michigan at NCAA's

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

 

Last year Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll in the dual. Nick Nevills defeated Sam Stoll and finished ahead of him at Big Ten.

Sam Stoll defeated Nevills at NCAAs and finished ahead of him.

Which one mattered and which one didnt?

 

As for your evaluation of perfomance as a whole... that exactly there goes against EVERYTHING Iowa Wrestling has preeched about for the past 30+ years?

Win you live, Lose you Die. 

They also say if you lose, go get the next best thing. Once again, THE HAWKEYES put a high emphasis on winning,  but why can't we judge their entire body of work. Its not mutually exclusive. 
 

Edited by russelscout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

They really didnt matter. The 4 NCAA titles really is all that mattered. The undefeated thing is really just embellishment.

Kyle Dake is a 4x NCAA Champion. Why is it never mentioned that hes a 3x Conference Champ? Because it doesnt matter.

Do Pat Smith's losses ever really get mentioned? No. All that matters is hes a 4x NCAA Champ.

Cael Sanderson=Pat Smith. Gotchya

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, russelscout said:

How many times have you said that NCAA's are all that matter? We are talking college wrestling here.

The NCAA Landscape yes. So if you want to go that route, then yes Both are 4x NCAA Champions. So they are equal in the amount of NCAA titles they have won.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Hence the quote being "Normally" not always. Theres exceptions to the rule.

So in those Olympics only 50% of the time. Good odds. What Jeff Blatnick says is not gospel. Mad respect for the guy and what he did for wrestling an MMA, but he has said plenty of things on air for dramatic affect that came across pretty silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

The NCAA Landscape yes. So if you want to go that route, then yes Both are 4 NCAA Champions. So they are equal in the amount of NCAA titles they have won.

Well if NCAA's are all that matter they are equal in everything in your opinion right? no reason to consider the other matches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Claiming Brands and Zalesky are having similar levels of success completely ignores and context and is purposely being intellectually dishonest. 

An example:  "Both won three titles in a row to start their Iowa head coaching tenures and then didn't win after!"  This completely ignores the fact that Zalesky took over a fully stocked program that had just set the NCAA scoring record and stacks of elite level recruits, and Iowa had won the PREVIOUS 3 titles before Zalesky took over.  Brands took over a downward trending program with one elite level recruit in the cupboard.

Further, there was no Penn State monster nor was Ohio State in the arena, and those are probably the biggest programs in the Big 10 in terms of "prestige" in terms of the entire athletic program.  There was nobody like that when Zalesky was coaching, except for one year of Oklahoma State.

Minnesota was good.  Oklahoma State was good.  Nothing like this.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

Claiming Brands and Zalesky are having similar levels of success completely ignores and context and is purposely being intellectually dishonest. 

An example:  "Both won three titles in a row to start their Iowa head coaching tenures and then didn't win after!"  This completely ignores the fact that Zalesky took over a fully stocked program that had just set the NCAA scoring record and stacks of elite level recruits, and Iowa had won the PREVIOUS 3 titles before Zalesky took over.  Brands took over a downward trending program with one elite level recruit in the cupboard.

Further, there was no Penn State monster nor was Ohio State in the arena, and those are probably the biggest programs in the Big 10 in terms of "prestige" in terms of the entire athletic program.  There was nobody like that when Zalesky was coaching, except for one year of Oklahoma State.

Minnesota was good.  Oklahoma State was good.  Nothing like this.

 

And you just conveniently ignored Brands' double classes of recruits, plus you mislead with PSU and OSU since when Brands took over they were not in 2007 what they would later become.

If you are alibying Brands for only the PSU Championship era, it is still his job to overcome that. Its his job to beat out Ohio St too. Even with his head start and the Iowa brand name he is falling short, just as Zalesky fell short of Minn. and Ok St.

Edited by TBar1977

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

And you just conveniently ignored Brands' double classes of recruits, plus you mislead with PSU and OSU since when Brands took over they were not in 2007 what they would later become.

If you are alibying Brands for only the PSU Championship era, it is still his job to overcome that. Its his job to beat out Ohio St too. Even with his head start and the Iowa brand name he is falling short, just as Zalesky fell short of Minn. and Ok St.

I'm not ignoring anything, it's just an overblown thing people like to say.  Near as I can tell, here are the incoming freshman that didn't transfer from Virginia Tech:

Billy Murphy, Travis Blasco, Matt Ballweg, Aaron Janssen, Jake Kerr, Brooks Kopsa, Nick Kolegraff, and Dane Wilson. 

If there is a total of 3 NCAA team points from that group, I will be shocked.  Even out of the VT5, he only got consistent production from 2 of those guys, Borschel and, of course, Metcalf.  Slaton had one year and then never made it back.  Leclere never panned out beyond "solid".  TH Leet never took the mat as a varsity wrestler.  The "double recruiting class" that allegedly carried Brands to his three titles is a myth.  The VT kids are the only elite level recruits that came to Iowa that year.

Sure, it's his job to overcome it, but newsflash, nobody is overcoming it so far.  Brands has shown a willingness to change his strategies, and it is paying dividends with Spencer and Marinelli and Kemerer and Stoll being proven elite wrestlers, plus possible elite wrestlers like Warner and maybe Murin and Desanto coming in, too.  When Zalesky was fired, it was...Perry.  And that's it.

EDIT:  And fallingshort to those Minny and Okie State teams (outside of 2005) is not the same as falling short to these Penn State and Ohio State teams.  Those programs are in, probably, the top 2 wrestling states in the country.

Edited by VakAttack

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...