TBar1977 3,442 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 If Brands was able to win NCAA with what you are implying is not much talent, then to an extent the rest of the field was relatively weak. To a degree this offsets how strong PSU and TOSU have been ever since. I do agree, obviously, that nobody else has beaten them but that shouldn't really by an Iowa standard. Not a big deal either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VakAttack 2,123 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, TBar1977 said: If Brands was able to win NCAA with what you are implying is not much talent, then to an extent the rest of the field was relatively weak. To a degree this offsets how strong PSU and TOSU have been ever since. I do agree, obviously, that nobody else has beaten them but that shouldn't really by an Iowa standard. Not a big deal either way. I'm not saying Iowa didn't have talent. Iowa was the behemoth for those 3 years. They haven't been close to that mountaintop due to Penn State and Ohio State coming to life in more fertile-recruiting state, being outrecruited by both of those programs in particular (and other programs in general), and the drop off in in-state talent to recruit from. Before SPencer, Iowa hadn't gotten a transcendent wrestler since Metcalf. And yes, I agree, that's on Brands. But he's making in-roads to changing that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,442 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, VakAttack said: I'm not saying Iowa didn't have talent. Iowa was the behemoth for those 3 years. They haven't been close to that mountaintop due to Penn State and Ohio State coming to life in more fertile-recruiting state, being outrecruited by both of those programs in particular (and other programs in general), and the drop off in in-state talent to recruit from. Before SPencer, Iowa hadn't gotten a transcendent wrestler since Metcalf. And yes, I agree, that's on Brands. But he's making in-roads to changing that. Ok. I basically agree with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 The difference is Brands is being given the opportunity to "change his ways" while Zalesky wasnt. Why hasn't Zalesky "produced" out at Oregon State. Well it's the west coast. None of the West Coast schools are "producing." How much pressure is there for him to "produce" out that way? Probably not much. We'll never know how Zalesky would have done if he was given more time and given firm demands of "produce or your out." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LCpl Schmuckatelli 31 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 19 hours ago, russelscout said: When Brands came back to Iowa, there was a general feeling that there would be an improvement from the Zalesky years, and there was. What hire would give you that feeling now? How about Taylor or Dake? Maybe take a run at Snyder. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,442 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 10 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said: The difference is Brands is being given the opportunity to "change his ways" while Zalesky wasnt. Why hasn't Zalesky "produced" out at Oregon State. Well it's the west coast. None of the West Coast schools are "producing." How much pressure is there for him to "produce" out that way? Probably not much. We'll never know how Zalesky would have done if he was given more time and given firm demands of "produce or your out." Zalesky's recruiting budget at Oregon probably isn't very large. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 15 minutes ago, TBar1977 said: Zalesky's recruiting budget at Oregon probably isn't very large. One of many other hurdles hes probably facing, but word on the street is that hes got a pretty darn good 125lber... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Plasmodium 1,200 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 I am a fan of Wyoming. Wyoming duals OrSU every year. I will say Wyoming has more or less stayed in the same lane for the past 7 years or so. About 5 years ago, the Beavs were a better team than Wyoming. Now they aren't even competitive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Boompa 87 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 22 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said: Just for final clarification, you think VT would be regularly top 2-4 in the country under Tom Brands? I do. Very fertile recruiting grounds. Way better than Iowa. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Boompa said: I do. Very fertile recruiting grounds. Way better than Iowa. Yea I guess you're right. Dresser did after all beat Iowa in 2016 at NCAAs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MSU158 1,333 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 47 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: Yea I guess you're right. Dresser did after all beat Iowa in 2016 at NCAAs. You sure like to beat that, 1 point win due to a penalty point, drum. I don't know if you want to hang your hat on a 1 point win in 1 season. Especially considering they lost by 33.5 and 49.5 the next 2 seasons..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, MSU158 said: You sure like to beat that, 1 point win due to a penalty point, drum. I don't know if you want to hang your hat on a 1 point win in 1 season. Especially considering they lost by 33.5 and 49.5 the next 2 seasons..... With a tradition like Iowa's, they should NEVER EVER EVER finish behind VirginiaTech. Schools like PSU, tOSU, Iowa and OSU are not allowed to have "down years" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) As for the 2016 year, yes I like to hang a hat on that, because VirginiaTech was basically gutted by Iowa yet VTech was able to over come that a beat Iowa, the most decorated college wrestling program of all time. Edited November 30, 2018 by BigTenFanboy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MSU158 1,333 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: As for the 2016 year, yes I like to hang a hat on that, because VirginiaTech was basically gutted by Iowa yet VTech was able to over come that a beat Iowa, the most decorated college wrestling program of all time. Interesting logic considering Brands was only there for 2 years and his recruits wanted to follow him having never actually wrestled for VTech. Let's not act like they were a powerhouse when Brands took over. Considering VTech got their pound of flesh by blocking a year of eligibility, I am not sure they are the victims you make them out to be. Also, they followed Brands up with probably the best fit possible in Dresser. He was a very successful High School coach in that area and was able to recruit and keep that program from barely missing a beat. Edited November 30, 2018 by MSU158 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 VTech was being loaded up to become a strong program. Then they were gutted. As for Dresser, yes he was a high school coach who at the time was unproven. Dresser did an outstanding job at VTech, but I would argue that had the program not been gutted he would have had even more success. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mpchillin 91 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 18 minutes ago, MSU158 said: You sure like to beat that, 1 point win due to a penalty point, drum. I don't know if you want to hang your hat on a 1 point win in 1 season. Especially considering they lost by 33.5 and 49.5 the next 2 seasons..... Notable to mention that Iowa was without a possible AA-R12 guy that was forced to medically forfeit out of the tournament that year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Mpchillin said: Notable to mention that Iowa was without a possible AA-R12 guy that was forced to medically forfeit out of the tournament that year. It doesnt matter. Iowa should never lose regardless of reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mpchillin 91 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, BigTenFanboy said: It doesnt matter. Iowa should never lose regardless of reason. It adds context and definitely does matter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MSU158 1,333 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Come on now, be fair......BigTenFanboy should add except for Iowa and really only PSU to his screenname! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Mpchillin said: It adds context and definitely does matter. No. Iowa should ALWAYS be better than those programs and theres no acceptable reason for them to lose to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mpchillin 91 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said: No. Iowa should ALWAYS be better than those programs and theres no acceptable reason for them to lose to them. So why aren’t you blasting OKST last year, PSU in 2015 and Ohio State in 2014? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 Because this thread is about Iowa and Tom Brands Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigTenFanboy 1,537 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 And historically speaking neither program ever carried the philosophy of 1ST PLACE OR NO PLACE. 1 TBar1977 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mpchillin 91 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said: Because this thread is about Iowa and Tom Brands Oh ok, seems like you just dislike them more than those teams. Sorry for adding context. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TBar1977 3,442 Report post Posted November 30, 2018 What did Matt McDonough do after finishing 2nd that year/ Didn't he throw the medal in the trash can because it wasn't first place? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
