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Tommy Brands Challenge of a Lifetime

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51 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

As for the 2016 year, yes I like to hang a hat on that, because VirginiaTech was basically gutted by Iowa yet VTech was able to over come that a beat Iowa, the most decorated college wrestling program of all time.

Aren't you the guy that says only National Championship results count?  Because OK State has 11 more  National Championships than Iowa.

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3 minutes ago, jchapman said:

Aren't you the guy that says only National Championship results count?  Because OK State has 11 more  National Championships than Iowa.

Also the guy that says Oklahoma State, Ohio State and Penn State should never have a down year but all of them have finished out of the top 5 in the past 5 years.

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes and those performances were unacceptable! NOT A SIMPLE CONCEPT!!!

And 34 National Championships being more decorated than 23 National Championships is a SIMPLE CONCEPT, yet you have failed to grasp it.

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1 minute ago, jchapman said:

And 34 National Championships being more decorated than 23 National Championships is a SIMPLE CONCEPT, yet you have failed to grasp it.

Actually I'm not. OSU's perfomance last year was unacceptable.

The REASON why this discussion is exclusively on Iowa is because its an thread about Iowa.

With the tradition that OSU has it is unacceptable for them to lose to a traditionally mid level program. EVER.

Why do you think Iowa refused to wrestle UNI not so long ago? Because there was the possibility for them to lose to UNI WHICH IS UNACCEPTABLE!

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Only if it happens regularly and becomes the new norm for that program.

ANd Iowa has placed below this lower program (your phrase) under Brands....once.

 

Meanwhile, Zalesky placed behind:

 

2003 - Oklahoma, Lehigh, Michigan, dormant Penn State and Arizona State

2005:  Oklahoma, Michigan, and Illinois

2006:  Oklahoma

As well as no national champions in the last 2 years as a coach.  Under your standard, Iowa made the right move getting rid of Zalesky and Brands deserves more time.

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BTF and co,

You are holding Iowa to a standard they can no longer realistically hold themselves to.  And, honestly, I don't think they do anymore.  Even the Brands realize what PSU and tOSU have become.  Simply expecting Iowa to finish ahead of them every year isn't reasonable and I KNOW they get that.  Hell, one of Brands championships was won with 96.5 pts.  They outscored that the past 2 years and took a distant 4th and 3rd.

The 1st or last mentality can still hold a place in an individual's mind as a motivator, but that is no longer the Iowa team mantra.  Iowa is adapting.  Does that mean they will actually be able to catch them, let alone surpass them?  I don't know.  But, using that old argument to pigeon hole the current state of Iowa wrestling is rather weak.......

Edited by MSU158

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4 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

BTF and co,

You are holding Iowa to a standard they can no longer realistically hold themselves to.  And, honestly, I don't think they do anymore.  Even the Brands realize what PSU and tOSU have become.  Simply expecting Iowa to finish ahead of them every year isn't reasonable and I KNOW they get that.  Hell, one of Brands championships was won with 96.5 pts.  They outscored that the past 2 years and took a distant 4th and 3rd.

The 1st or last mentality can still hold a place in an individual's mind as a motivator, but that is no longer the Iowa team mantra.  Iowa is adapting.  Does that mean they will actually be able to catch them, let alone surpass them?  I don't know.  But, using that old argument to pigeon hole the current state of Iowa wrestling is rather weak.......

Iowa will always hold on to that fan base and place highly at Nationals. 

The key for PSU and tOSU are their coaches.  Once they leave...who knows for sure if their programs will still sustain at such a high level?

Given that both programs now expect excellence every year, I'd say it's likely that excellence will still be the norm after Sanderson and Ryan retire.  

But probably quite that high.  







 

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31 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

ANd Iowa has placed below this lower program (your phrase) under Brands....once.

 

Meanwhile, Zalesky placed behind:

 

2003 - Oklahoma, Lehigh, Michigan, dormant Penn State and Arizona State

2005:  Oklahoma, Michigan, and Illinois

2006:  Oklahoma

As well as no national champions in the last 2 years as a coach.  Under your standard, Iowa made the right move getting rid of Zalesky and Brands deserves more time.

I didnt make the standard. Iowa did.

30 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

BTF and co,

You are holding Iowa to a standard they can no longer realistically hold themselves to.  And, honestly, I don't think they do anymore.  Even the Brands realize what PSU and tOSU have become.  Simply expecting Iowa to finish ahead of them every year isn't reasonable and I KNOW they get that.  Hell, one of Brands championships was won with 96.5 pts.  They outscored that the past 2 years and took a distant 4th and 3rd.

The 1st or last mentality can still hold a place in an individual's mind as a motivator, but that is no longer the Iowa team mantra.  Iowa is adapting.  Does that mean they will actually be able to catch them, let alone surpass them?  I don't know.  But, using that old argument to pigeon hole the current state of Iowa wrestling is rather weak.......

So in other words like I've been saying all this time, since it is no longer the Iowa mantra, Brands is being held to a different standard than Zalesky was!

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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20 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I didnt make the standard. Iowa did.

So in other words like I've been saying all this time, since it is no longer the Iowa mantra, Brands is being held to a different standard than Zalesky was!

Zalesky didn't have this version of PSU and tOSU in his conference.  And Zalesky was expected to WIN duals that you ignore for your own argument.  Losing to MSU and Northwestern was unacceptable and 11-7 with a B1G Tourney finish of 6th was a standard that Brands hasn't even sniffed when sitting on the toilet.

Get real, you can make your argument, thin as it may be, that JUST the NCAA results make them close, but EVERY other measurable data point shows that Brands has them trending in a very positive arch while Iowa, under Zalesky, was in a tailspin................

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6 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Zalesky didn't have this version of PSU and tOSU in his conference.  And Zalesky was expected to WIN duals that you ignore for your own argument.  Losing to MSU and Northwestern was unacceptable and 11-7 with a B1G Tourney finish of 6th was a standard that Brands hasn't even sniffed when sitting on the toilet.

Get real, you can make your argument, thin as it may be, that JUST the NCAA results make them close, but EVERY other measurable data point shows that Brands has them trending in a very positive arch while Iowa, under Zalesky, was in a tailspin................

If Zalesky had a better showing at NCAAs no one would have cared about those dual losses.

Zalesky had OSU and Minnesota to contend with.

 

Are you saying had Zalesky won those duals but had the same NCAA finishes he wouldn't have been canned? Doubtful.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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14 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

No.  You made this standard of not placing below certain teams, and then applied it to a wide swath of teams, including Iowa.

Actually my standard is more lenient than the Iowa standard. Iowa standard is 1st place or no place. The other schools mentioned are "always be amongst the top"

 

In all seriousness, dont you have a certain expectation of Iowa to ALWAYS be amongst the top teams in the NCAA?

If you say you dont then I'll say you're lying.

According to KMF, such stand of expectations exists as well. I didnt create it, I just reiterated it.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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On 11/29/2018 at 2:28 PM, MSU158 said:

The problem with doing that isn't Brands.  It is expecting a rural, midwest school to be able to compete with 2 massive programs now that the luster of "Iowa Wrestling" is gone.  Make no mistake, that luster was gone before Brands got there.

 
The luster is gone
The luster is gone away
The luster is gone baby
Its gone away for good
Although, I'll still live on
But so lonely I'll be...
 
 

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