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A. Alton getting burnt out?

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Maybe the 149 lbers are too big for him. I would have bet after his freshman season he would certainly be an NCAA finalist/champion at some point...now it seems so far away.

I agree. I saw AA earlier in the season attempt his patented cement mixer and it seemed like he just couldn't horse his opponents over nearly as effectively as he did @ 141. The Altons got far with a lot of stuff that worked in high school but when it came to the elite college grind they don't seem to have enough technique or physical strength at the higher weights to fall back on.

 

You hit it on the head with AA, at least at this point in his career.

If your "go to" is a Patented Cement Mixer, you can count on not beating anyone good.

 

Dylan is more versatile and has good shots/finishes and is proven. He will be about where he was last year. Somewhere in the 7th seed range and I would expect him to do just fine.

agree as well. My thoughts were more with AA than with DA.

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Hurricane - I'm not really THAT old.

 

I will be in PA in a few weeks taking my son to look at some schools on the East Coast, where he may end up wrestling in college, and would be happy to toast a Yuengling, Rolling Rock or Coke 0 with either PA-Fan or rodney - and hopefully part of that toasting would be in celebration of a 3rd straight Penn State National Championship!

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Hurricane - I'm not really THAT old.

 

I will be in PA in a few weeks taking my son to look at some schools on the East Coast, where he may end up wrestling in college, and would be happy to toast a Yuengling, Rolling Rock or Coke 0 with either PA-Fan or rodney - and hopefully part of that toasting would be in celebration of a 3rd straight Penn State National Championship!

Well, if you also decide to look at some schools in the South (Va Tech, UT-C, etc.), we have a Yuengling distributor in Knoxville, TN. We could also toast some first-rate local moonshine here. Always happy to accommodate another veteran. 8-)

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Maybe the 149 lbers are too big for him. I would have bet after his freshman season he would certainly be an NCAA finalist/champion at some point...now it seems so far away.

 

I don't think there's any question that both Altons have regressed a bit. However, there's one big tournament coming up, during which they can silence all doubters.

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Maybe the 149 lbers are too big for him. I would have bet after his freshman season he would certainly be an NCAA finalist/champion at some point...now it seems so far away.

 

I don't think there's any question that both Altons have regressed a bit. However, there's one big tournament coming up, during which they can silence all doubters.

 

And I certainly hope they do.

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Maybe the 149 lbers are too big for him. I would have bet after his freshman season he would certainly be an NCAA finalist/champion at some point...now it seems so far away.

 

I don't think there's any question that both Altons have regressed a bit. However, there's one big tournament coming up, during which they can silence all doubters.

 

I don't know how you can say that. Andrew just placed the highest he ever has at the Big Ten Tournament. He probably will have his best result at Nationals as well.

 

Dylan has looked great all year.

 

I think there is certainly a question that they both have regressed.

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Maybe the 149 lbers are too big for him. I would have bet after his freshman season he would certainly be an NCAA finalist/champion at some point...now it seems so far away.

 

I don't think there's any question that both Altons have regressed a bit. However, there's one big tournament coming up, during which they can silence all doubters.

 

I don't know how you can say that. Andrew just placed the highest he ever has at the Big Ten Tournament. He probably will have his best result at Nationals as well.

 

Dylan has looked great all year.

 

I think there is certainly a question that they both have regressed.

 

At this point, I think it is clear they are both under-performing given their and others expectations. Granted, these expectations may be a bit unfair...and in the end they are not doing all that bad...however the situation is what it is.

 

Dylan for example placed 6th at B10s coming off of a 3rd place finish last season at NCAAs, not to mention being ranked 5th in the Nation. That is regression.

 

Andrew you have a better argument for, being that he placed higher than before, etc etc. However, he has had some losses that should have been wins, and he has some serious lung problems - which is what people are pointing to in his case. Yes, he outperformed his seed...but he is a better wrestler than that seed (or is expected to be at least)...so him outperforming it is not a huge accomplishment in many people's view.

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When the year began I honestly believed both Altons would be top 3 or top 4 in their weight class.

 

Andrew had a great freshman year. He wrestled close matches with the very best in the country. Why would anyone expect a drop off after 18 months in the Penn State room? Dylan was 3rd last year.

 

They may not have disappointed relative to their seeding, but the expectations were higher for me after watching them in h.s. Hopefully they do better at NCAAs.

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Well can we at least wait until after NCAAs before claiming they have regressed.

 

If Dylan ends up 3rd at NCAAs and Andrew 5-8th I don't know how you can claim they have regressed. And be honest with me, do you really think they have no chance at that?

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Well can we at least wait until after NCAAs before claiming they have regressed.

 

If Dylan ends up 3rd at NCAAs and Andrew 5-8th I don't know how you can claim they have regressed. And be honest with me, do you really think they have no chance at that?

 

No, I dont think they have no chance at that...that isn't the point I was making.

 

And we also don't have to wait until after NCAAs...we are allowed to discuss it now. If they both place that high at NCAAs then no...in the end they would not have regressed. But as it stands right now...they are under performing given expectations...and it doesn't seem that they are going to place that high in 2 weeks without some major turn around...and that is what is being discussed.

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Andrew and Dylan were in my books future 1-2x NCAA champs at one point. Is that to high of a pedistool to put the #2 and 4 ranked kids out of high school on? You make that call.

 

I now see AA fighting for AA status and DA fighting for the same. I'm still looking for top notch wins, which I would have expected a few by now. My honest thought at the beginning of the season was a 2nd place finish for AA behind Oliver.

 

Every 3rd period now, it seems like the clock crawls in his matches and can't get over soon enough. They have all the talent in the world, but gonna need much more than that to reach lofty expectations. I don't see it happening this year.

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Both Dylan and Andrew's future wrestling careers aren't looking great. I just don't see the fire in them that I do of most fierce competitors. Each has their own weaknesses that are huge, and both gas tanks are obviously blatant issues.

I thought Andrew looked better than Dylan did. Dylan was an impressive third last year at the NCAA's. This year I don't think he'll place that high. A loss to Danny Zilverberg doesn't bode will with me as I make my predictions.

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Burned out.......I doubt it! Having a rough go of it lately definately. Those who are saying they are disappointments need to get a grip on reality.

 

Andrew is 26 and 4 after starting the season injured and then having lost time in the heart of the season for disciplinary reasons. Of those 4 loses .....all could have turned out differently. Hell a couple of those loses could easily have been falls for him.

 

Dylan is 25 and 6 with 4 loses to top 5 guys and 1 to a very gifted wrestler (Demas) who owns a win over St. John. Again.....he lost time mid-season and might not be where he wants to be....YET!

 

Remember they both had some growing pains in HS......there are some other great wrestlers out there andhell look at Welch! I believe he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS.... ditto the wrestler from FLA who went to Lehigh (can't recall his name). Grajales had a can't miss tag....the archives are full of kids who never came close to what the Altons have to this point and they are still writing their story....LET IT PLAY OUT.

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Burned out.......I doubt it! Having a rough go of it lately definately. Those who are saying they are disappointments need to get a grip on reality.

 

Andrew is 26 and 4 after starting the season injured and then having lost time in the heart of the season for disciplinary reasons. Of those 4 loses .....all could have turned out differently. Hell a couple of those loses could easily have been falls for him.

 

Dylan is 25 and 6 with 4 loses to top 5 guys and 1 to a very gifted wrestler (Demas) who owns a win over St. John. Again.....he lost time mid-season and might not be where he wants to be....YET!

 

Remember they both had some growing pains in HS......there are some other great wrestlers out there andhell look at Welch! I believe he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS.... ditto the wrestler from FLA who went to Lehigh (can't recall his name). Grajales had a can't miss tag....the archives are full of kids who never came close to what the Altons have to this point and they are still writing their story....LET IT PLAY OUT.

 

How many times can the same misguided counter-argument come up in one thread?

 

For the last time, nobody is saying anything about their accomplishments to this point, or belittling them as wrestlers. The point is simple, given the expectations many had (myself included since I started the thread), they are under performing - that is all. As I stated, specifically with Andrew, after his freshman year...I expected them both to win an NCAA title at some point, and be fairly dominant in doing so...and at this point that expectation (as unfair as it may be) seems pretty far away from reality. Not that they stink, or they are busts, or they are finished, etc, etc.

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Burned out.......I doubt it! Having a rough go of it lately definately. Those who are saying they are disappointments need to get a grip on reality.

 

Andrew is 26 and 4 after starting the season injured and then having lost time in the heart of the season for disciplinary reasons. Of those 4 loses .....all could have turned out differently. Hell a couple of those loses could easily have been falls for him.

 

Dylan is 25 and 6 with 4 loses to top 5 guys and 1 to a very gifted wrestler (Demas) who owns a win over St. John. Again.....he lost time mid-season and might not be where he wants to be....YET!

 

Remember they both had some growing pains in HS......there are some other great wrestlers out there andhell look at Welch! I believe he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS.... ditto the wrestler from FLA who went to Lehigh (can't recall his name). Grajales had a can't miss tag....the archives are full of kids who never came close to what the Altons have to this point and they are still writing their story....LET IT PLAY OUT.

 

How many times can the same misguided counter-argument come up in one thread?

 

For the last time, nobody is saying anything about their accomplishments to this point, or belittling them as wrestlers. The point is simple, given the expectations many had (myself included since I started the thread), they are under performing - that is all. As I stated, specifically with Andrew, after his freshman year...I expected them both to win an NCAA title at some point, and be fairly dominant in doing so...and at this point that expectation (as unfair as it may be) seems pretty far away from reality. Not that they stink, or they are busts, or they are finished, etc, etc.

 

This is pretty much my assessment to. I expected 1-2x each, and now I think a better expectation is 2-3 All American status each.

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I think they both got tough draws.

Andrew had to wrestle 4 times on Saturday. He competed hard against Sueflohn, having beaten dziewa an hour before. He wrestled all the way back to the third place match, where he was battling with Lopouchanski. It looked to me that they were both attempting throws, and Lopouchanski won.

 

Dylan lost a tough OT match with Demas. That led him to the privilege of facing the #1 Seed, St.John.

Some credit should go to the opponent. I think D and A Alton both wrestled hard and well.

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If the Altons are a disappointment, what about Marshall Peppleman, who came, as I recall, out of the same class in the same state, also a middleweight of a similar high school rank, and is not close to being an AA, or even in the tournament this year?

 

What happened to Pepp?

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If every kid hit the sky high expectations of the posters here we would need to crown at least 5 national champs and 20 All Americans at each weight class every year. It is comical. No credit given to all the other competitors looking to get better and win.

 

You would think the college achievements should be granted for the body of work in high school. No credit to the other coaches or wrestlers, all a case of regressing. Definitely not the case of tough as nails battles with small mistakes, small adjustments often making the difference. Couldn't be that kids their senior year of high school were competing against often younger kids - now involved in the more brutal division 1 schedule with kids moving up to man strength and technique being mastered by more opponents vs high school. No, all regression, all disappointments.

 

This place is brutal. Must be nice to sit in judgment with cries of disappointment.

 

I cheer these guys - putting their hearts out there in battle. Working their asses off. Trying to do well for themselves, for their teammates, for their friends and family. Coming up short sometimes yet still battling hard. These guys are warriors that deserve our respect. Amazing what they do. Amazing. Many so close in skill level and determination that tides turn from month to month.

 

If performance was all cast in stone early on, this would be a much more boring sport. Three cheers for the supposed underdogs and their ability to climb the podium ladders - and sometimes not! They deserve your respect vs the cries of regression that remove credit.

 

You Internet posters that enjoy tearing down these kids need to get a life.

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If the Altons are a disappointment, what about Marshall Peppleman, who came, as I recall, out of the same class in the same state, also a middleweight of a similar high school rank, and is not close to being an AA, or even in the tournament this year?

 

What happened to Pepp?

 

Definitely a disappointment relative to his pedigree (better than his 2xAA older brother at Harvard).

 

But I'm not sure that many guys who watched MPep and the Altons in HS would agree with you that the Altons were the same type of prospects. Even among blue chippers, there is some division of college talent. MPep was never as slick and sophisticated or precocious from his feet as the Altons, and he wasn't as obviously gifted athletically in terms of quickness and explosiveness. He was a force, no doubt, but got a lot of mileage from his mat wrestling.

 

Also, there's this guy named Dake who is forcing Pep to wrestle up a weight this year.

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If every kid hit the sky high expectations of the posters here we would need to crown at least 5 national champs and 20 All Americans at each weight class every year. It is comical. No credit given to all the other competitors looking to get better and win.

 

You would think the college achievements should be granted for the body of work in high school. No credit to the other coaches or wrestlers, all a case of regressing. Definitely not the case of tough as nails battles with small mistakes, small adjustments often making the difference. Couldn't be that kids their senior year of high school were competing against often younger kids - now involved in the more brutal division 1 schedule with kids moving up to man strength and technique being mastered by more opponents vs high school. No, all regression, all disappointments.

 

This place is brutal. Must be nice to sit in judgment with cries of disappointment.

 

I cheer these guys - putting their hearts out there in battle. Working their asses off. Trying to do well for themselves, for their teammates, for their friends and family. Coming up short sometimes yet still battling hard. These guys are warriors that deserve our respect. Amazing what they do. Amazing. Many so close in skill level and determination that tides turn from month to month.

 

If performance was all cast in stone early on, this would be a much more boring sport. Three cheers for the supposed underdogs and their ability to climb the podium ladders - and sometimes not! They deserve your respect vs the cries of regression that remove credit.

 

You Internet posters that enjoy tearing down these kids need to get a life.

 

I give up. Somehow starting a discussion, on a discussion board, turns into bad blood and me disrespecting wrestlers I was discussing.

 

If you want this to be a praise-board when we can just give everyone participation awards and repeat how much we respect them for doing what they do...maybe you should start your own place for that - I assumed it was just assumed everyone here, as fans, respects the talent of these kids especially at the D1 level and that we didn't need to continually repeat it...or moreover if we don't repeat it we are somehow disrespecting them. Get real.

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If every kid hit the sky high expectations of the posters here we would need to crown at least 5 national champs and 20 All Americans at each weight class every year. It is comical. No credit given to all the other competitors looking to get better and win.

 

You would think the college achievements should be granted for the body of work in high school. No credit to the other coaches or wrestlers, all a case of regressing. Definitely not the case of tough as nails battles with small mistakes, small adjustments often making the difference. Couldn't be that kids their senior year of high school were competing against often younger kids - now involved in the more brutal division 1 schedule with kids moving up to man strength and technique being mastered by more opponents vs high school. No, all regression, all disappointments.

 

This place is brutal. Must be nice to sit in judgment with cries of disappointment.

 

I cheer these guys - putting their hearts out there in battle. Working their asses off. Trying to do well for themselves, for their teammates, for their friends and family. Coming up short sometimes yet still battling hard. These guys are warriors that deserve our respect. Amazing what they do. Amazing. Many so close in skill level and determination that tides turn from month to month.

 

If performance was all cast in stone early on, this would be a much more boring sport. Three cheers for the supposed underdogs and their ability to climb the podium ladders - and sometimes not! They deserve your respect vs the cries of regression that remove credit.

 

You Internet posters that enjoy tearing down these kids need to get a life.

 

Obviously you don't know either of them 2 very well, nor had a chance to watch them much in high school. I'd be willing to bet that even they aren't happy with where they currently are. The fact that Andrew is beating most of the kids in the first period and then goes on to lose tells you something. He is DEFINITELY technically better, but can't get the job done. Sorry, but when your wrestling for the top school in the nation, you're under the microscope more than others.

 

It tells you how high some of us think of these 2 when we expect much more.

 

Not everyone likes the criticism, but some of us can put neutral light on things while still being a State fan!

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