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A. Alton getting burnt out?

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Burned out.......I doubt it! Having a rough go of it lately definately. Those who are saying they are disappointments need to get a grip on reality.

 

Andrew is 26 and 4 after starting the season injured and then having lost time in the heart of the season for disciplinary reasons. Of those 4 loses .....all could have turned out differently. Hell a couple of those loses could easily have been falls for him.

 

Dylan is 25 and 6 with 4 loses to top 5 guys and 1 to a very gifted wrestler (Demas) who owns a win over St. John. Again.....he lost time mid-season and might not be where he wants to be....YET!

 

Remember they both had some growing pains in HS......there are some other great wrestlers out there andhell look at Welch! I believe he was the #1 recruit coming out of HS.... ditto the wrestler from FLA who went to Lehigh (can't recall his name). Grajales had a can't miss tag....the archives are full of kids who never came close to what the Altons have to this point and they are still writing their story....LET IT PLAY OUT.

 

How many times can the same misguided counter-argument come up in one thread?

 

For the last time, nobody is saying anything about their accomplishments to this point, or belittling them as wrestlers. The point is simple, given the expectations many had (myself included since I started the thread), they are under performing - that is all. As I stated, specifically with Andrew, after his freshman year...I expected them both to win an NCAA title at some point, and be fairly dominant in doing so...and at this point that expectation (as unfair as it may be) seems pretty far away from reality. Not that they stink, or they are busts, or they are finished, etc, etc.

 

What are the expectations that you say everyone had? I certainly thought they would be very good college wrestlers, but I didn't think "definite national champ". Andrew was always slick on his feet, but he was never a mat wrestler and college will expose that. He is 26-4, which ain't too shabby. Dylan took 3rd as a RS Fresh...not too shabby.

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What are the expectations that you say everyone had? I certainly thought they would be very good college wrestlers, but I didn't think "definite national champ". Andrew was always slick on his feet, but he was never a mat wrestler and college will expose that. He is 26-4, which ain't too shabby. Dylan took 3rd as a RS Fresh...not too shabby.

 

Andrew has 4 losses, but should be 1. He was beating Suef both times before getting winded and turned. The first period was pretty one sided both times. He always also winning his last match vs the kid from Purdue before tiring. I've already said, while it may sound crazy to others, I thought a 2nd place finish to Jordan Oliver this year was very likely. He was much more highly touted coming out of HS than Ness.

 

Dylan. The only thing different between 157 this year and last year is NO DAKE. Things should have gotten better. I see a 5th place finish for Dylan this year. Again, these aren't just 2 kids that I thought would do pretty good. From what I have always seen, I possibly put my expectations too high.

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Im really not going to repeat myself anymore and argue with someone who says "they are not doing so bad!!"

 

I never said they were doing bad...that isn't the point im making. If you don't understand that by now just don't comment.

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What are the expectations that you say everyone had? I certainly thought they would be very good college wrestlers, but I didn't think "definite national champ". Andrew was always slick on his feet, but he was never a mat wrestler and college will expose that. He is 26-4, which ain't too shabby. Dylan took 3rd as a RS Fresh...not too shabby.

 

Andrew has 4 losses, but should be 1. He was beating Suef both times before getting winded and turned. The first period was pretty one sided both times. He always also winning his last match vs the kid from Purdue before tiring. I've already said, while it may sound crazy to others, I thought a 2nd place finish to Jordan Oliver this year was very likely. He was much more highly touted coming out of HS than Ness.

 

Dylan. The only thing different between 157 this year and last year is NO DAKE. Things should have gotten better. I see a 5th place finish for Dylan this year. Again, these aren't just 2 kids that I thought would do pretty good. From what I have always seen, I possibly put my expectations too high.

 

The only difference is no Dake? What about St. John, James Green (who nearly beat Dylan in HS), Welch and Demas. Do you remember how insanely good Welch was in HS, placing at Midlands. Demas was/is an athletic phenom. St. John is returning runner up. It's not like all of those guys, and 70 other D1 wrestlers aren't working their tails off to get on the podium as well as the Altons. I still think that both Altons can win a title. Andrew does seem to have some lung issues...but that is something that can be corrected. His record after 2 years is 56-14. At least 10 of those losses were to All Americans. Coming into this season, Quentin Wright had 23 losses and will probably be a 4x AA, so it kind of puts it into perspective. I am willing to bet that both Altons step up & have a good NCAA run.

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What are the expectations that you say everyone had? I certainly thought they would be very good college wrestlers, but I didn't think "definite national champ". Andrew was always slick on his feet, but he was never a mat wrestler and college will expose that. He is 26-4, which ain't too shabby. Dylan took 3rd as a RS Fresh...not too shabby.

 

Andrew has 4 losses, but should be 1. He was beating Suef both times before getting winded and turned. The first period was pretty one sided both times. He always also winning his last match vs the kid from Purdue before tiring. I've already said, while it may sound crazy to others, I thought a 2nd place finish to Jordan Oliver this year was very likely. He was much more highly touted coming out of HS than Ness.

 

Dylan. The only thing different between 157 this year and last year is NO DAKE. Things should have gotten better. I see a 5th place finish for Dylan this year. Again, these aren't just 2 kids that I thought would do pretty good. From what I have always seen, I possibly put my expectations too high.

 

Unfortunately for Andrew, matches last for 3 periods. Being ahead at the end of the first is nice, but it only really counts when you're ahead after 3. Cam Tessari was interviewed by flo after he beat AA and he more or less said outright that he knew AA had tank issues and that he weathered the storm until AA gassed and then he pounced. As for being highly touted out of high school, remember that there were lots of people that thought Ryan Leaf would be a better QB than Peyton Manning. Recruiting and drafting are absolute crapshoots, regardless of which sport is being discussed. For proof, look at any past recruiting list and you'll see gems like Cody Gardner being ranked ahead of Zach Rey, or Eric Medina ahead of Frank Molinaro, just to name two cases.

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Im really not going to repeat myself anymore and argue with someone who says "they are not doing so bad!!"

 

Good, maybe you'll shut up about the Alton brothers

 

You must either have serious reading comprehension problems (since ive been clear on my intentions with this thread no less that 3 times)...or just chose to comment without reading the whole thread.

 

I hope for your sake it's the 2nd one.

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Unfortunately for Andrew, matches last for 3 periods. Being ahead at the end of the first is nice, but it only really counts when you're ahead after 3. Cam Tessari was interviewed by flo after he beat AA and he more or less said outright that he knew AA had tank issues and that he weathered the storm until AA gassed and then he pounced. As for being highly touted out of high school, remember that there were lots of people that thought Ryan Leaf would be a better QB than Peyton Manning. Recruiting and drafting are absolute crapshoots, regardless of which sport is being discussed. For proof, look at any past recruiting list and you'll see gems like Cody Gardner being ranked ahead of Zach Rey, or Eric Medina ahead of Frank Molinaro, just to name two cases.

Sometimes the coach makes a difference, sometimes the coaching style, sometimes they just can't grasp college styles, sometimes it's injuries, or who knows what else.(Agreeing with you here)

I don't think the twins are a bust by any means. In fact, I think they are remarkable. I just bought into the national championship hype. It's really not fair to label them in a negative light because they have tremendous records and I can't imagine anyone looking past either of them. When I look at what they have done and what they have possible still without the BS. They are great wrestlers.

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What are the expectations that you say everyone had? I certainly thought they would be very good college wrestlers, but I didn't think "definite national champ". Andrew was always slick on his feet, but he was never a mat wrestler and college will expose that. He is 26-4, which ain't too shabby. Dylan took 3rd as a RS Fresh...not too shabby.

 

Andrew has 4 losses, but should be 1. He was beating Suef both times before getting winded and turned. The first period was pretty one sided both times. He always also winning his last match vs the kid from Purdue before tiring. I've already said, while it may sound crazy to others, I thought a 2nd place finish to Jordan Oliver this year was very likely. He was much more highly touted coming out of HS than Ness.

 

Dylan. The only thing different between 157 this year and last year is NO DAKE. Things should have gotten better. I see a 5th place finish for Dylan this year. Again, these aren't just 2 kids that I thought would do pretty good. From what I have always seen, I possibly put my expectations too high.

 

The only difference is no Dake? What about St. John, James Green (who nearly beat Dylan in HS), Welch and Demas. Do you remember how insanely good Welch was in HS, placing at Midlands. Demas was/is an athletic phenom. St. John is returning runner up. It's not like all of those guys, and 70 other D1 wrestlers aren't working their tails off to get on the podium as well as the Altons. I still think that both Altons can win a title. Andrew does seem to have some lung issues...but that is something that can be corrected. His record after 2 years is 56-14. At least 10 of those losses were to All Americans. Coming into this season, Quentin Wright had 23 losses and will probably be a 4x AA, so it kind of puts it into perspective. I am willing to bet that both Altons step up & have a good NCAA run.

 

Like I said, the only DIFFERENCE is NO Dake. All these above mentioned are good-great wrestlers, but were there in the previous year as well!!

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If the Altons are a disappointment, what about Marshall Peppleman, who came, as I recall, out of the same class in the same state, also a middleweight of a similar high school rank, and is not close to being an AA, or even in the tournament this year?

 

What happened to Pepp?

 

Definitely a disappointment relative to his pedigree (better than his 2xAA older brother at Harvard).

 

But I'm not sure that many guys who watched MPep and the Altons in HS would agree with you that the Altons were the same type of prospects. Even among blue chippers, there is some division of college talent. MPep was never as slick and sophisticated or precocious from his feet as the Altons, and he wasn't as obviously gifted athletically in terms of quickness and explosiveness. He was a force, no doubt, but got a lot of mileage from his mat wrestling.

 

Also, there's this guy named Dake who is forcing Pep to wrestle up a weight this year.

 

Marshall Peppelman was definitely on the same level as the Altons from a prospect perspective. In fact, Marshall dominated Andrew 7-3 in the state semi's during their Junior seasons.

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Marshall Peppelman was definitely on the same level as the Altons from a prospect perspective. In fact, Marshall dominated Andrew 7-3 in the state semi's during their Junior seasons.

I'm not doubting you, but I thought Andrew was the #1 recruit at any weight during his recruiting year?

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Marshall Peppelman was definitely on the same level as the Altons from a prospect perspective. In fact, Marshall dominated Andrew 7-3 in the state semi's during their Junior seasons.

 

Not true at all. If you're putting Peppleman in Alton's class by the time they were Seniors, your kidding yourself. He beat Andrew as a sophomore in H.S when Andrew was the one wrestling up a weight from Dylan. He beat Andrew in the semis.

 

By the time they were finishing high school, Andrew was to Marshall what Marstellar is to Garrett. Maybe not quite as much, but not far off. Andrew was the top overall recruit for good reason (some had Hunter Steiber #1 and Andrew #2)

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Marshall Peppelman was definitely on the same level as the Altons from a prospect perspective. In fact, Marshall dominated Andrew 7-3 in the state semi's during their Junior seasons.

 

Not true at all. If you're putting Peppleman in Alton's class by the time they were Seniors, your kidding yourself. He beat Andrew as a sophomore in H.S when Andrew was the one wrestling up a weight from Dylan. He beat Andrew in the semis.

 

By the time they were finishing high school, Andrew was to Marshall what Marstellar is to Garrett. Maybe not quite as much, but not far off. Andrew was the top overall recruit for good reason (some had Hunter Steiber #1 and Andrew #2)

 

You are correct that it was their Sophomore season when Andrew lost to Marshall in the semis. As for their being a big gap between the two, I think you are kidding yourself. Andrew was the #2 overall recruit on intermat, Peppelman was the #4 overall recruit on intermat. Andrew was definitely the flashier talent, no doubt about that, but, Peppelman's resume is quite impressive: 3-time state champion & 4 time finalist, 3 time Beast of the East winner, 4 time Powerade winner, 2 time Super 32 winner. Comparing the difference between Andrew #2 & Peppelman #4 to Marsteller & G. Peppelman is crazy. Marsteller is #1 pound for pound on Flo's rankings, while Garrett is the #24 ranked Junior. I agree that Andrew was a better talent than Marshall, but, I don't think the gap was as significant as you are insinuating it was.

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The Altons and Peppleman were all considered big time recruits coming out of high school. I think the difference between them was that the Altons had great success in freestyle while I don't think Marshall really competed in it, so there was a perception by some that they were the better overall recruits.

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The Altons and Peppleman were all considered big time recruits coming out of high school. I think the difference between them was that the Altons had great success in freestyle while I don't think Marshall really competed in it, so there was a perception by some that they were the better overall recruits.

 

They were big recruits but Marshall never had the offense Andrew did. If you recall correctly, many people on here predicted minimal success at the NCAA level for Marshall because of his offense.

 

Again, I am huge Alton fans and I KNOW they are capable of way more.

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The Altons and Peppleman were all considered big time recruits coming out of high school. I think the difference between them was that the Altons had great success in freestyle while I don't think Marshall really competed in it, so there was a perception by some that they were the better overall recruits.

 

They were big recruits but Marshall never had the offense Andrew did. If you recall correctly, many people on here predicted minimal success at the NCAA level for Marshall because of his offense.

 

Again, I am huge Alton fans and I KNOW they are capable of way more.

 

That we can completely agree on. Both Altons were able to create offense against anyone. Against the top tier guys, Marshall would usually win, but, they were often 1-2 point wins.

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A lot of revisionist history here. There was a ton of talk of the Altons and Peppelman all being multiple time national champs. Heck, there were plenty on here that felt Peppelman was the best of the group.

D1 wrestling has a way of humbling people, and bringing a strong dose of reality to expectations.

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I think the magnitude of competition and the booze factor are playing a roll here. Maybe he is sucking back on grandpas cough medicine a little too much still? Kid is still a stud and i hope he gets it together in a few weeks.

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A lot of revisionist history here. There was a ton of talk of the Altons and Peppelman all being multiple time national champs. Heck, there were plenty on here that felt Peppelman was the best of the group.

D1 wrestling has a way of humbling people, and bringing a strong dose of reality to expectations.

 

True Dat. The list of wrestlers who "underperformed" over the years would be very long. Some kids who are not national caliber studs in HS may eventually just physically catch up to the studs. When you won everything under the sun in HS, maybe you lose your edge? A kid from my local HS was a scrawny 130lb senior. He was good, but wasn't what I would have considered a D1 caliber kid. However, he was young... turned 18 in June of his senior year. After a couple years of maturity & a great work ethic, he has morphed into a nationally ranked 165lber who will be wrestling at the NCAA's. He just happened to hit his stride later in life, and is super focused on his career. There is an equal amount of kids who "came from nowhere" as there are "busts". Predicting success collegiately is very tough.

 

Conversely, what about the wrestlers that became way more than we ever thought? I never pegged Taylor or Dake to be doing what they do. Jake Herbert was a very good Pa wrestler as a 1x champ, but I never imagined that he would be a 2x champ, 4x AA and Olympian. Roger Kish made Herbert look average at the Dapper Dan. I doubt that Ben Askren was on anyone's radar as a future 4x finalist.

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There are so many factors that impact your success at this level (really in anything that you do in life). Desire, commitment, opportunity, coaching/mentoring, etc.

The list of guys who were "can't miss" that missed is far greater than the list of "can't miss" that lived up to expectations.

The fact is, these young men are getting an education while training hard and competing with the best young wrestlers in this country. There is a TON of talented kids to compete with, and it's not easy. Guess what? Winning in wrestling isn't the #1 priority for many kids, and that hardly means they're bad kids.

I remember wanting to drop the sport plenty of times in college, while my buddies were hanging out at the frat house eating pizza and playing pool, while I was running in plastics. It gets old after a while.

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Actually the "Mountain Boys" are right on track...Pep was never going to make it as well as the other mountain boy that chose Iowa...Canton PA had Brandon Parker who was going to make noise but didn't...They all did win 2 straight PIAA Individual Titles so go on with what you don't know...I hope they make us backwoods folks proud!!!

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Conversely, what about the wrestlers that became way more than we ever thought? I never pegged Taylor or Dake to be doing what they do.

 

I can see all the other guys mentioned (Dake, Askren, Herbert, etc), but how can Taylor be on this list of you not thinking that he could be doing what he is doing? He was about as good as it possibly gets in HS...180-2 / 4 State Titles / 4 Ironman Titles / 4 Beast Titles / Junior National Champion in Freestyle and Greco / Junior Hodge winner....

 

Was it the "he is too small and will not be strong enough" thing?

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Mopar: you continue to be the biggest idiot on the board now that marty is gone. a shame that you are from pa bc you give the state a bad name as far as fans and followers. BROCK PARKER from canton was only a 1x champ after he failed to make weight his junior year. his wins over the altons were when they were freshmen. out of the group you named you only got one right. Andrew Alton was the only two time titleist. Parker dnq, 3, dnmw, 1

Peppelman 2, 1, 1, 1

A Alton 3, 3, 1, 1

D Alton 7, 1, 1, 1

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