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FinalThoughts

Final Thoughts AWL

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A day after a wrestling event, as prolific and monumental as could be, and still no video coverage, no extensive information for the fans, and not even a single mention by Flo (the largest wrestling media outlet in North America). This is the problem with wrestling. If any event were ever to recieve mass coverage this would have been it. All wrestling events are poorly covered, outside of the NCAA finals. Jordan Oliver and Zain Retherford was a match up that everybody wanted to see and I see no footage now and, during the build-up, saw little to no promotion. Another fat L for wrestling and its fans. I hope we like taking a backseat to baseball, basketball, football, womens soccer, and even LaCrosse or Tennis. 

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Flo will not promote content they don't support. Their media arm is marketing for their production arm. I'm not blaming them.

AWL knew this. They could've tried to get on Flo. Flo is there to support their business. 

I was shocked that AWL's Instagram didn't have videos of some of the action immediately. Who is in charge of their social media policy? This is a critical component to this type of organization. I thought during the run up they did a fairly good job, but absolutely terrible execution post event. It could be a policy preventing it, so not placing blame on the person in charge of their social media accounts.

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I like some of the matches, but generally speaking the event felt over-produced. 10 matches should take 1.5-2 hours, and this even took 3 with. Yes, they had nice post match interviews and walk-in music, but it was a little much. By the time they got to JO vs Zain, I was a little tired of watching wrestling. 

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Start time was 8 (per the AWL website) and it took right around 2 hours. It took 3 if you're counting the pre-event stuff. I only saw 8 PM Central advertised on AmericanWrestling.org, so that's what I based my start time off. It was done around 10 as I'd just finished putting my oldest to bed (who likes to lallygag on the weekends).

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9 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Flo will not promote content they don't support. Their media arm is marketing for their production arm. I'm not blaming them.

AWL knew this. They could've tried to get on Flo. Flo is there to support their business. 

I was shocked that AWL's Instagram didn't have videos of some of the action immediately. Who is in charge of their social media policy? This is a critical component to this type of organization. I thought during the run up they did a fairly good job, but absolutely terrible execution post event. It could be a policy preventing it, so not placing blame on the person in charge of their social media accounts.

I’m not mad at Flo, maybe a little bemused.  They gave up a lot of hits when they passed on even a simple recap.  Or maybe they put one up and I missed it? 

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I think Flo's silence is pretty typical for them. I think I remember them being silent on a few big events in the past because they were covered on Track. Maybe they don't want to push traffic to their competitors, but it seems kind of petty to me. Espn still covers games that were broadcast on CBS and vice-versa. This event had some huge matches and deserved at least a recap.

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I enjoyed the event and would gladly pay again. I look at it this way. I enjoyed watching this event way more than going to see a movie and this cost me less. I sometimes times go out to a bar to watch UFC fights (the bar owner was a DII AA btw) and I spent much more at he bar.  I hope we see more events. 

Does anyone know the attendance numbers? 

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1 hour ago, jstock said:

I enjoyed the event and would gladly pay again. I look at it this way. I enjoyed watching this event way more than going to see a movie and this cost me less. I sometimes times go out to a bar to watch UFC fights (the bar owner was a DII AA btw) and I spent much more at he bar.  I hope we see more events. 

Does anyone know the attendance numbers? 

I guess that’s a good way of looking at it. I looked at like I pay half that price to watch an entire month of Netflix, so it didn’t seem like a good deal to me. I know everyone is going to criticize me saying wrestling fans want everything for free, but there is no way to get an event like this to be mainstream if it is behind a paywall. Only very hardcore wrestling fans paid for and saw this event. I paid for the world championships and I pay yearly for Flo despite their many let downs, but I’m not made of money. You have to draw the line somewhere, and even I didn’t pay for this event. I can watch NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. all for free with my antenna. 

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I can watch NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. all for free with my antenna. 


You can get what, one MLB game a week, one NBA game a week, you do get more NFL, but the amount of pro sports on broadcast channels is dwindling. If you want to watch every MLB game, their streaming package is around $115 a year.

I’ve cut the cord, but I really only get Sunday NFL and selected CFB that I watch live on an antenna up here.

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2 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

 


You can get what, one MLB game a week, one NBA game a week, you do get more NFL, but the amount of pro sports on broadcast channels is dwindling. If you want to watch every MLB game, their streaming package is around $115 a year.

I’ve cut the cord, but I really only get Sunday NFL and selected CFB that I watch live on an antenna up here.

 

Yeah you definitely can’t get every game without cable. Wrestling is the only sport I truly love to watch, so that doesn’t bother me. My point was that it’s a tough sell to the general sports fan to pay extra for a wrestling event when they can view other more popular sports for free. I think it’s even a tougher sell when you consider the other sports could also be viewed as part of a cable subscription or even amazon prime now. I guess boxing and mma do well on ppv, so it may be possible but to start out I think they should find the sponsors to make it free to watch. Then maybe after fans are hooked they could go into ppv

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10 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Yeah you definitely can’t get every game without cable. Wrestling is the only sport I truly love to watch, so that doesn’t bother me. My point was that it’s a tough sell to the general sports fan to pay extra for a wrestling event when they can view other more popular sports for free. I think it’s even a tougher sell when you consider the other sports could also be viewed as part of a cable subscription or even amazon prime now. I guess boxing and mma do well on ppv, so it may be possible but to start out I think they should find the sponsors to make it free to watch. Then maybe after fans are hooked they could go into ppv

The thought that I get to watch poker, ping pong, corn hole, etc for "free' because I have ESPN or Fox Sports the Ocho is something people have to continually fight. ESPN and ESPN2 for instance costs over $8 per month on your cable bill if you would get it ala carte. That doesn't include your local provider taking their cut either.

The good thing about paying for video on TrackWrestling or Flo is that the money goes back to those in wrestling and not some big wig at a big network. I'd much rather be paying for Willie's Bud Heavy than paying for some network bigwig's 10th vacation home.

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3 hours ago, BobDole said:

The good thing about paying for video on TrackWrestling or Flo is that the money goes back to those in wrestling and not some big wig at a big network. I'd much rather be paying for Willie's Bud Heavy than paying for some network bigwig's 10th vacation home.

I'd rather buy Willie a log of dip then give money to the cable companies. Anyone know what his brand is? 

 

EDIT PS: I paid for the track subscription for this event because I wanted to put my money where my mouth is and support wrestling coverage. I already pay for Flo, but I paid for Track coverage of Worlds and AWL 1.

Edited by GranbyTroll

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I agree with you guys that I don’t want to pay the big cable companies... that’s why I ditched cable (and because I’m on a tight budget). I want to support wrestling and have done that with flo pro and I bought worlds and another event (Final X I think?) on track. But I think wrestling is a blue collar sport and there are a lot of fans like me that simply can’t afford to keep spending money for every event. As Bob Dole mentioned it only cost $8 to add the ESPN package to a cable subscription. That’s a whole month of 24/7 sports. When you’re asked to pay almost twice as much for a two hour event, you have to question if it’s worth it. I know it’s only $15, but it adds up. I’m not blaming Track, I know they have to make a profit. I’m just saying you won’t get nearly as many viewers behind a paywall. If I were starting out I’d want to build the fan base as much as possible and look for other ways to raise funds...ads, sponsors, donors, investors, etc. Not sure if that’s a plausible idea, but I don’t think this way is either

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6 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree with you guys that I don’t want to pay the big cable companies... that’s why I ditched cable (and because I’m on a tight budget). I want to support wrestling and have done that with flo pro and I bought worlds and another event (Final X I think?) on track. But I think wrestling is a blue collar sport and there are a lot of fans like me that simply can’t afford to keep spending money for every event. As Bob Dole mentioned it only cost $8 to add the ESPN package to a cable subscription. That’s a whole month of 24/7 sports. When you’re asked to pay almost twice as much for a two hour event, you have to question if it’s worth it. I know it’s only $15, but it adds up. I’m not blaming Track, I know they have to make a profit. I’m just saying you won’t get nearly as many viewers behind a paywall. If I were starting out I’d want to build the fan base as much as possible and look for other ways to raise funds...ads, sponsors, donors, investors, etc. Not sure if that’s a plausible idea, but I don’t think this way is either

You obviously haven't purchased a cable/satellite subscription because you can't just get ESPN and you fail to realize that's what it costs the cable company, thus when it's passed on to you they mark it up 25-50% or they wouldn't make money. It also takes MILLIONS of subscribers to get that price.

By your same token you can figure out a possible way to raise $15 every week for a Track subscription, maybe find a sponsor, donor, investor, or panhandle. 

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4 hours ago, JasonBryant said:

A certain number of viewers don’t translate to dollars in the niche sport streaming market - paying viewers do.

An event with 300 PPV buys, for example, will make a tournament significantly more than 10,000 free viewers.

Agree, but which one creates the bigger fan base and overall longevity of the league? Thats my only point. I dont blame them for trying to turn a profit and wish them well. I just think it will be hard to survive long term with a low number of viewers 

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2 hours ago, BobDole said:

You obviously haven't purchased a cable/satellite subscription because you can't just get ESPN and you fail to realize that's what it costs the cable company, thus when it's passed on to you they mark it up 25-50% or they wouldn't make money. It also takes MILLIONS of subscribers to get that price.

By your same token you can figure out a possible way to raise $15 every week for a Track subscription, maybe find a sponsor, donor, investor, or panhandle. 

You’re right I haven’t looked into buying cable packages. I thought you were saying it would cost an additional $8 per month to add ESPN to a cable subscription. I know you can buy sport packages for an extra monthly fee, but not just buy them as stand alone only. Sorry if I misunderstood what you were saying. And as far as me getting personal donations, I think it would be a lot tougher sell than getting sponsors and advertisements for a major sporting event. If anyone would like to donate to my personal wrestling viewing fund, please PM me for PayPal information :-)

Edited by Eagle26

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2 hours ago, Eagle26 said:

Agree, but which one creates the bigger fan base and overall longevity of the league? Thats my only point. I dont blame them for trying to turn a profit and wish them well. I just think it will be hard to survive long term with a low number of viewers 

There's a difference between turning a profit and turning enough of a profit to make future events viable. There's the gate and the PPV. Viewers aren't spending any money if it's free. What is better engagement? 50,000 people who MIGHT watch and do nothing, or 500 people who are engaged and spend money to watch again and again? It's always a sliding scale, chicken-egg, but just because something's on TV for free doesn't mean people are watching it. If we had big money sponsors paying to be seen, then sure, open it up, make it free, but this stuff costs money to operate. One of wrestling's big problems with things like this is they lose all sorts of money when it's out there for free and investors and advertisers get no ROI on anything. The non-wrestling brands who might come in for 1-2 events get zip and bail. At least with PPV, you know exactly where to market and how to market. It's those fans who help growth by word of mouth and attending. Things like this don't get the drive-by fan to watch or attend at this stage of their existence. 

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15 hours ago, BobDole said:

The thought that I get to watch poker, ping pong, corn hole, etc for "free' because I have ESPN or Fox Sports the Ocho is something people have to continually fight. ESPN and ESPN2 for instance costs over $8 per month on your cable bill if you would get it ala carte. That doesn't include your local provider taking their cut either.

The good thing about paying for video on TrackWrestling or Flo is that the money goes back to those in wrestling and not some big wig at a big network. I'd much rather be paying for Willie's Bud Heavy than paying for some network bigwig's 10th vacation home.

b447be31f3700b0277fbaaa5f6e13c1a.jpg

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I understand that time zones create challenges, but I personally know of three (3) people who planned to buy the PPV, but didn't when they learned it was not starting until 9EST.  They (correctly) assumed that JO/Zain would be last and that the event organizers would drag out the event.  The event wasn't dragged out as long as I feared, but still could have been quicker.  I don't remember the exact time, but it wasn't until around 11PM until the main event was wrestled.  Too late for some people..... 

Edited by Crash

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I understand that time zones create challenges, but I personally know of three (3) people who planned to buy the PPV, but didn't when they learned it was not starting until 9EST.  They (correctly) assumed that JO/Zain would be last and that the event organizers would drag out the event.  The event wasn't dragged out as long as I feared, but still could have been quicker.  I don't remember the exact time, but it wasn't until around 11PM until the main event was wrestled.  Too late for some people..... 


Don’t do too many PPV buys in too many other sports, do they? UFC main events usually don’t even start until around midnight Eastern. This was an 9-8-7-6 start time. MLB games in Central Time Zone mostly start at 8:05, so that 9th inning for East Coast Cubs fans never seems to be a problem, neither does the final two minutes for NBA fans.

You have often pointed out people you know who end up not buying, or are turned off by something that’s more minutiae than actually a rationale. Do you live in a Senior Living facility? A sporting event on a Saturday night ending at 11 pm eastern is too late?

Newspapers even had time (should they have needed it) to put this in their papers on the East Coast.

Ending time of the AWL was clearly not an issue.

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