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BigTimeFan

Penn State vs Arizona State

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11 hours ago, BigTimeFan said:

My question is, will we see Hall vs Zahid? If so, who you got? I hope we see them wrestled as I’d hate  the season go by without them grappling. 

As for me, I’m firmly in the Zahid will whomp Hall camp. I will go further. I think we see a major decision. 

A major?

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Nomad at FLO suggests that ASU could bump Milhof to 133 and wrestle him against RBY.   Not sure if this is his idea or something that ASU is considering. It would still be a long shot to win the dual.  ASU would have to win 125, 133, 149, and 174 and hope for an upset at 165 or 184 as well as limited bonus points by PSU at the other weights.

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6288697-1-zahid-valencia-vs-2-mark-hall-is-going-down-in-rec-hall

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6 hours ago, Zebra said:

Short of an injury who is going to beat him? Nobody currently in the NCAA at or around his weight will do so and I do not see anybody coming in next year who will challenge him. 

 

And it is obviously a penalty point, that was never debatable. In fact it was a 3 point swing as he had a TD take away. 

That guy "Upset" is always lurking out there somewhere.

Nobody ever thought that a freshman could keep Steiber on the mat for a whole period but it happened. FR Gabe Dean took out Ed Ruth. I'm sure no one was worried about Kyle Conel last year at the NCAA Tournament. I'm not sure anybody thought that Joseph could beat IMar twice.

It might not be evident but so few finish with less than 3 losses in their careers. 

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I do think Zahid will pull out a close one. But to think Zahid can't lose for the rest of his career is crazy. He may not, but Hall has beat him before and definitely can again. Also, I don't think Amine gets the respect he has shown he deserves, to be in the conversation with these two. He took Zahid to the brink last year and only seems to keep improving. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in the finals or as a national champ this year. I still would put my money on Zahid, but it is not a sure thing. I would bet on at least three different returning champs(Nolf,NIckal, Lee) to repeat before Zahid (with Joseph and Yanni being around the same odds, maybe a little lower). 

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3 minutes ago, westfan said:

Hall got dominated. The match wasn't as close as the score. This isn't a very deep weight class, so I expect these two to be there again this year.

Huh?

1) Valencia (JR) - 1x Champ 2x AA
2) Hall (JR) - 1x Champ 2x AA
3) Amine (JR) - 2x AA
4) Lewis (SR) - 3x AA
5) McFadden (JR) 2x AA
6) Kutler (JR) 1xAA, 1x injured

Other returning AA's: Smith, Womack
Other tough outs/newcomers: Lujan, Labriola, Sebastian, Bullard, Christensen, Lydy, Smith

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Someone has to finish 2-8. Doesn't mean they're great wrestlers though. I should have said there's a huge drop off after Zahid and Hall. I find the AA label in wrestling a joke. 10% of the starters in D1 are AA. Hell if we did that in football, we'd have 13-14 AA's at every position and basketball would have in the 30's. After 1-2 and maybe 3, they should just be referred to as placers.

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10 minutes ago, westfan said:

Someone has to finish 2-8. Doesn't mean they're great wrestlers though. I should have said there's a huge drop off after Zahid and Hall. I find the AA label in wrestling a joke. 10% of the starters in D1 are AA. Hell if we did that in football, we'd have 13-14 AA's at every position and basketball would have in the 30's. After 1-2 and maybe 3, they should just be referred to as placers.

Ok, remove the AA tag.  Use whatever metric you want...174 remains one of the deepest weight classes, and is in the conversation for #1.  

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1 hour ago, cem5202 said:

I do think Zahid will pull out a close one. But to think Zahid can't lose for the rest of his career is crazy. He may not, but Hall has beat him before and definitely can again. Also, I don't think Amine gets the respect he has shown he deserves, to be in the conversation with these two. He took Zahid to the brink last year and only seems to keep improving. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in the finals or as a national champ this year. I still would put my money on Zahid, but it is not a sure thing. I would bet on at least three different returning champs(Nolf,NIckal, Lee) to repeat before Zahid (with Joseph and Yanni being around the same odds, maybe a little lower). 

I am making the prediction that he'll never loos in college again. 

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2 hours ago, Threadkilla said:

The only reason it was 8-2 was Hall went for a desperation shot at the very end.   

All i am saying is a Valencia major isn't as far out there as some think. Just to even it out i'll say its possible for Hall to catch Valencia during another epic scramble and pin him. I've seen crazier things happen. It's even more likely than Valencia losing on a headgear pull and well....

Edited by unbiased

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5 minutes ago, unbiased said:

All i am saying is a Valencia major isn't as far out there as some think. Just to even it out i'll say its possible for Hall to catch Valencia during another epic scramble and pin him. I've seen crazier things happen. It's even more likely than Valencia losing on a headgear pull and well....

Valencia didnt lose on a headgear pull. Hall scored a TD shortly after which is what cemented the loss. Furthermore, the td that Zahid scored was a direct result of the headgear pull so had it not taken place the score would have been 1-1 with about 40 seconds remaining.

 

As for my pick on who wins this time around? I say Zahid by 2-3

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Valencia didnt lose on a headgear pull. Hall scored a TD shortly after which is what cemented the loss. Furthermore, the td that Zahid scored was a direct result of the headgear pull so had it not taken place the score would have been 1-1 with about 40 seconds remaining.

 

As for my pick on who wins this time around? I say Zahid by 2-3

Ok, he didn't loose on it but it was a three point swing. Still not an everyday occurrence.

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38 minutes ago, unbiased said:

Ok, he didn't loose on it but it was a three point swing. Still not an everyday occurrence.

Not even. Had the ref been paying better attention he would have seen the headgear pull and made the call before the td even took place. It wasn't a 3 point swing because Valencia should have never been awarded those points in the first place.

I always laugh whenever I hear people say "if not for the headgear pull" almost as if they forget that Valencia had 40 seconds (which is plenty of time) to score a takedown and go up 3-2. Instead he was the one that got taken down to fall behind 4-1. Now people can say he went for a big/desperation move, but if that's truly the case that's a really poor tactical decision/mental error on his part thus further establishing why he deserved to lose that match.

Had the head pull not happened the score would have been 1-1 so you cant say Valencia would have won for sure.

With that being said, he came back and handled Hall the following year, but let's not pretend or even imply that in their first meeting the win was somehow stolen from him.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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>>>Every time they wrestle the score gets wider.

.... Excuse me, but bout #1 was tied 1-1 until a superb scramble TD with just 0:23, then esc to Hall.  So the first two bouts had a feather's difference between the two guys - either guy could have won -- THEN the score got wider, the one (third) time. No reason to stretch the truth (if there was a 4th bout I apologize)

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Norfleet has improved so much over the past 18 months. The Pac12 title put him on the map. I think he has a very good chance to win tomorrow and really put the himself in AA discussions. Shields is another guy that keeps getting better. Hard to pick him for the upset, but would love to see it. I have been disappointed in Maruca. He doesnt attack enough, doesnt score enough points and just hopes to hang on for a close win. Hard for me to pick him, but again wouldnt be surprised to see him come out on top. He really needs a big win.

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