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Zeke Jones and Mark Manning

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That’s harsh - too harsh for Zeke, for sure.  I lived in AZ before I moved to PA and Sun Devil fans have a lot more to be excited about than they have in a long time. They look to be the reigning West Coast power for years to come.  Zeke has a helluva staff and he has another top notch recruiting class coming in.  Tonight, ASU was the underdog in 8 matches.  It went chalk except for Mark over Zahid.  That match did not resemble any of their previous college matches.  (Nomad is going to fill us in on the Tulsa Nationals matches...)  Having said that, I am sure that Jones, Pendleton and Pritts are not happy with ASU’s results.  What was the final takedown count per team?   I think that is going to tell the tale in PSU matches this season.  The over/under for opponent takedowns could go down significantly after the Scuffle.  They already pitched a takedown shutout against a badly injured Lehigh squad.  I suspect at least one or two B1G opponents could suffer the same fate if they make a change at 125.  

 

Let’s see how the rematch between the two teams goes in Tempe next year.  That should be a much more competitive match.  If ASU finishes top 8 or better at NCAAs this year, it is a step up from last year...

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Did a lot of “ref coaching” vs PSU. Didn’t think the line was crossed. Animated passionate coaches are good for the sport. There are many styles of coaching. I like them all. 

Many years ago Lock Haven’s coach Ken Cox would go to the head table and gyrate his body while screaming at the ref. Cox would say things like, “the pizza in Philadelphia stinks.”  He told me his purpose was to entertain the crowd. 

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If the commentary on this board is a clear reflection, the ASU fanbase believed getting rid of the old coach and snagging a guy like Zeke would ensure perennial top 3-5 finishes and regular team title contention.  I think they are setting a solid foundation at ASU, but the process is far more complicated and challenging.  Bobby Douglas showed it could be done--not an overnight job though.

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You guys are hard. Zeke in the coming years will get most of the west coast crop of talent. He is a great leader, coach and media guy. We will see if he can be a great recruiter. He is also good at admin stuff. Give him a few more years. Last nights results were on the road against maybe the best team the sport has ever seen. I know that is up for debate but Zeke has proven he can coach! There is no doubt there. 

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You guys are hard. Zeke in the coming years will get most of the west coast crop of talent. He is a great leader, coach and media guy. We will see if he can be a great recruiter. He is also good at admin stuff. Give him a few more years. Last nights results were on the road against maybe the best team the sport has ever seen. I know that is up for debate but Zeke has proven he can coach! There is no doubt there. 
The results are what matters. It's been 4 yrs now.

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Asking this after a loss to PSU isn't the best time. If Zeke has the same results against Michigan on the other hand, then you might have a point.
Do you think they are a top 5 program, top 10, top 15?

Will they compete for a National Title? I think Michigan has a better chance than ASU moving forward

I'm not knocking ASU, I just don't think they're on course for a perennial top 5 team.

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4 years ago ASU was suppose to be a contender by now with Jones, his staff and his recruits.  I would not say he is in jeopardy, but the team has not been quite where they were predicted to be. He has another great class coming in next year that has the potential for top 5. This one is filled with some great lightweights which Jones ironically has not developed. 

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11 hours ago, cjc007 said:

Do you think they are a top 5 program, top 10, top 15?

Will they compete for a National Title? I think Michigan has a better chance than ASU moving forward

I'm not knocking ASU, I just don't think they're on course for a perennial top 5 team.

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I don't know how good they are after a PSU dual unless they beat PSU. If Michigan can do the same thing to them, they aren't a top 10 dual team but last i checked there is no dual championship. With Zahid on the squad they will always be a top 15 tournament team.

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They're also redshirting two very good veteran wrestlers in Anthony Valencia and Tanner Hall. Granted, Valencia probably doesn't help them against the gauntlet that is the middle of the Penn State lineup last night, but Hall almost certainly would have given a better account of himself against Cassar than Brady Daniel (who's Dual Impact Index rating would have been in the 70's last year).

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40 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

They're also redshirting two very good veteran wrestlers in Anthony Valencia and Tanner Hall. Granted, Valencia probably doesn't help them against the gauntlet that is the middle of the Penn State lineup last night, but Hall almost certainly would have given a better account of himself against Cassar than Brady Daniel (who's Dual Impact Index rating would have been in the 70's last year).

Even if Hall wrestled and won, 35-6 doesn't change my opinion. PSU is red shirting 125 and probably 4 team points too.

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I don't know how good they are after a PSU dual unless they beat PSU. If Michigan can do the same thing to them, they aren't a top 10 dual team but last i checked there is no dual championship. With Zahid on the squad they will always be a top 15 tournament team.
They're not a top 5 team in duals or NCAA placement points.

I doubt they're even top 10.

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10 hours ago, SetonHallPirate said:

They're also redshirting two very good veteran wrestlers in Anthony Valencia and Tanner Hall. Granted, Valencia probably doesn't help them against the gauntlet that is the middle of the Penn State lineup last night, but Hall almost certainly would have given a better account of himself against Cassar than Brady Daniel (who's Dual Impact Index rating would have been in the 70's last year).

Anthony's lack of development should be concerning. He seems to be taking steps backwards.

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I would hate to see what was said about Lehigh after their PSU dual. I think ASU is just barely behind where they would like to be at this point. That mostly has to do with Valencia and Hall taking red shirts this year. Bennick getting kicked out didnt help and having 2 nothing recruiting classes after the first was not great either.

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How does this criticism in any way apply to Manning?

Manning has 8 top-10 NCAA team finishes (including 2 top-4 finishes), a 72% dual meet winning pct (in the Big 12 & Big 10), and a Big 12 team title, all while coaching in a state that does not produce a high amount of D1 talent.

Then of course, there is the international success of Burroughs and Green that others have already mentioned.

If anything, the correct question would be does anyone do more with less, than Manning?


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I would hate to see what was said about Lehigh after their PSU dual. I think ASU is just barely behind where they would like to be at this point. That mostly has to do with Valencia and Hall taking red shirts this year. Bennick getting kicked out didnt help and having 2 nothing recruiting classes after the first was not great either.
Lehigh had about half their starters out. Plus those guys are really smart.

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2 hours ago, Ari Gold said:

How does this criticism in any way apply to Manning?

Manning has 8 top-10 NCAA team finishes (including 2 top-4 finishes), a 72% dual meet winning pct (in the Big 12 & Big 10), and a Big 12 team title, all while coaching in a state that does not produce a high amount of D1 talent.

Then of course, there is the international success of Burroughs and Green that others have already mentioned.

If anything, the correct question would be does anyone do more with less, than Manning?


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His recruiting has largely been boosted by Burroughs. Green and Burroughs international success doesn't apply to Manning's ability to coach folkstyle. Has Nebraska produced an NCAA champ since Burroughs? Or when was their last finalist? Wasn't Green. 

Nearly every year Nebraska is one of the top teams in the recruiting class rankings but still haven't come close to earning a trophy.

I was really high on this group that Manning put together two years ago and definitely thought it was capable of placing top 4. So far it hasn't met that expectation so I would say its been a bit of a disappointment. If by next year (White's senior year), the team doesn't consistently look like a top team I would say Manning failed to develop them.

 

Edited by Relentless125

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On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Ari Gold said:

How does this criticism in any way apply to Manning?

Manning has 8 top-10 NCAA team finishes (including 2 top-4 finishes), a 72% dual meet winning pct (in the Big 12 & Big 10), and a Big 12 team title, all while coaching in a state that does not produce a high amount of D1 talent.

Then of course, there is the international success of Burroughs and Green that others have already mentioned.

If anything, the correct question would be does anyone do more with less, than Manning?


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Agree!!!!

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