RBY Gets Ranked

[BigTenFanboy 1,554]

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6249786-ncaa-rankings-2018-19/29666-133-seth-gross

 

Beating Milhoff gets RBY ranked 17th

[SetonHallPirate 694]

Well, there is the one idiot who ranked RBY 1 this week...

[TBar1977 3,454]

2 minutes ago, SetonHallPirate said:

Well, there is the one idiot who ranked RBY 1 this week...

Ha. Your ranking is probably closer to reality.

[russelscout 1,162]

When will flo just pull the trigger and rank this dude where he should be? Not a big deal I know, but why rank him 17th when everyone knows he is easy a top 10 guy? This isn't a seeding criteria. 

[OBXWrestler 79]

4 minutes ago, russelscout said:

When will flo just pull the trigger and rank this dude where he should be? Not a big deal I know, but why rank him 17th when everyone knows he is easy a top 10 guy? This isn't a seeding criteria. 

Rankings aren’t predictions, bro. 

[TBar1977 3,454]

17 minutes ago, OBXWrestler said:

Rankings aren’t predictions, bro. 

The whole thing is silly. Kyle Snyder was ranked ridiculously low when everyone knew he was a title contender.

 

[OBXWrestler 79]

9 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

The whole thing is silly. Kyle Snyder was ranked ridiculously low when everyone knew he was a title contender.

 

There in lies the difference between predictions and rankings. 

[russelscout 1,162]

21 minutes ago, OBXWrestler said:

Rankings aren’t predictions, bro. 

They aren't held to the same standard as a seeding criteria either bro. It's some guy, or a couple of guys perception of each weight class, bro. Who would put their money on Cameron Sykora right now? Everyone knows RBY is better so why even pretend.

These are the same guys who ranked Guillibon #1 up a weight for no reason. Dont act like there is some complex system that I'm just not getting, bro.

[dmm53 425]

52 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6249786-ncaa-rankings-2018-19/29666-133-seth-gross

 

Beating Milhoff gets RBY ranked 17th

Spey seems like a good guy, and he is pretty funny (which goes a long way), so 17th is a start and folks can argue from there as RBY tears through the ranks.   Hope he gets to meet up with Fix at the Scuffle.

[russelscout 1,162]

5 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

Spey seems like a good guy, and he is pretty funny (which goes a long way), so 17th is a start and folks can argue from there as RBY tears through the ranks.   Hope he gets to meet up with Fix at the Scuffle.

I like Spey. Just seems like any time someone like RBY or Snyder comes along they try and make a point by sticking to some strict standard, but it's pretty subjective the rest of the time.

Edited December 18, 2018 by russelscout

[OBXWrestler 79]

3 minutes ago, russelscout said:

They aren't held to the same standard as a seeding criteria either bro. It's some guy, or a couple of guys perception of each weight class, bro. Who would put their money on Cameron Sykora right now? Everyone knows RBY is better so why even pretend.

These are the same guys who ranked Guillibon #1 up a weight for no reason. Dont act like there is some complex system that I'm just not getting, bro.

All rankings, whether it is Flo or intermat, have a set criteria that are slightly different from each other obviously. But it isn’t their perception. It is based on data points. If it was their perception they would just be predicting, bro. 

[dmm53 425]

I just looked at FLO's rankings.  They seem arguably  to get 197 and P4P wrong.   Shakur drops to #7 after a win.  He has bonus-ed everyone.  Meanwhile  Venz loses twice and goes to #4.  

As for P4P, Hall beat Valencia and stays at #7 while Valencia stays at #3.  Hall has finished first and second and beaten ZV twice.  Valencia has finished first and third.  Flo will say that Hall has other losses (which is true) but they often just select criteria a bit arbitrarily.  It's not that their rankings are irrational; it's that they are selectively rational.  I get it though: there will always be arguments about this stuff: by its very nature it involves some subjectivity.   The best approach is just to be transparent with one's criteria.

Why the heck is Nick Reenan #3 at 184.  He has 17 losses in his career.  and 0 wins at NCAAs.  I repeat 0 wins.  Rasheed is a returning AA at a higher weight.  

 

Rank	Grade	Name	School	Previous Rank
1	SR	Myles Martin	Ohio State	1
2	SR	Emery Parker	Illinois	2
3	SO	Nick Reenan	NC State	7
4	SO	Taylor Venz	Nebraska	3
5	SR	Drew Foster	UNI	4
6	SR	Zachary Zavatsky	Virginia Tech	5
7	SR	Shakur Rasheed	Penn State	6
8	SO	Max Dean	Cornell	11
9	FR	Lou Deprez	Binghamton	10
10	SR	Chip Ness	North Carolina	13
11	SR	Ryan Preisch	Lehigh	8
12	JR	Corey Hazel	Lock Haven	9
13	FR	Nino Bonaccorsi	Pittsburgh	12
14	SR	Nick Gravina	Rutgers	NR

Edited December 18, 2018 by dmm53

[1032004 435]

1 hour ago, OBXWrestler said:

Rankings aren’t predictions, bro. 

I would argue that they are:  Yes they are based on data points, but at the end of the day most are just opinions.

[Jaroslav Hasek 1,762]

we keep the 'obvious' top tier true frosh guys ranked low or not at all until the wrestle their way up the rankings so we can maintain a consistent set of standards that we can apply when a non-so-obvious top tier true frosh comes along. 

Once you make an exception for an RBY or Snyder or whoever then everything becomes a prediction and the credibility of the rankings would be called into question much quicker. we're still humans and of course the rankings will be flawed to some extent, but if we’re not basing it on clear cut wins and losses then the whole thing unravels in a hurry. And you can’t say “we’re only going to do it for X Y and Z, not everyone else”, that only works in hindsight. 

I couldn't imagine doing the rankings any other way and I wouldn't expect it to change anytime in the foreseeable future. If someone questions why so and so is ranked where they are I want the records of the wrestlers backing me up and NOT my just my opinion. 

but good news! If you want to know how we think the brackets are going to look in March, Nomad and I are doing Brackastrology, where we predict the seeds from 1-33 of all 10 weight classes. 

We’ve done 2 Brackastologies so far. RBY has been in both. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6267660-brackastrology-i-the-first-brackastrology

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6277359-brackastrology-part-deux-the-return-of-brackastrology

And thank you for the kind words. I am humbled :)

[BigTenFanboy 1,554]

43 minutes ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

we keep the 'obvious' top tier true frosh guys ranked low or not at all until the wrestle their way up the rankings so we can maintain a consistent set of standards that we can apply when a non-so-obvious top tier true frosh comes along. 

Once you make an exception for an RBY or Snyder or whoever then everything becomes a prediction and the credibility of the rankings would be called into question much quicker. we're still humans and of course the rankings will be flawed to some extent, but if we’re not basing it on clear cut wins and losses then the whole thing unravels in a hurry. And you can’t say “we’re only going to do it for X Y and Z, not everyone else”, that only works in hindsight. 

I couldn't imagine doing the rankings any other way and I wouldn't expect it to change anytime in the foreseeable future. If someone questions why so and so is ranked where they are I want the records of the wrestlers backing me up and NOT my just my opinion. 

but good news! If you want to know how we think the brackets are going to look in March, Nomad and I are doing Brackastrology, where we predict the seeds from 1-33 of all 10 weight classes. 

We’ve done 2 Brackastologies so far. RBY has been in both. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6267660-brackastrology-i-the-first-brackastrology

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6277359-brackastrology-part-deux-the-return-of-brackastrology

And thank you for the kind words. I am humbled :)

If that's the case wrestlestat has the best rankings.

[pish6969 256]

we keep the 'obvious' top tier true frosh guys ranked low or not at all until the wrestle their way up the rankings so we can maintain a consistent set of standards that we can apply when a non-so-obvious top tier true frosh comes along. 
Once you make an exception for an RBY or Snyder or whoever then everything becomes a prediction and the credibility of the rankings would be called into question much quicker. we're still humans and of course the rankings will be flawed to some extent, but if we’re not basing it on clear cut wins and losses then the whole thing unravels in a hurry. And you can’t say “we’re only going to do it for X Y and Z, not everyone else”, that only works in hindsight. 
I couldn't imagine doing the rankings any other way and I wouldn't expect it to change anytime in the foreseeable future. If someone questions why so and so is ranked where they are I want the records of the wrestlers backing me up and NOT my just my opinion. 
but good news! If you want to know how we think the brackets are going to look in March, Nomad and I are doing Brackastrology, where we predict the seeds from 1-33 of all 10 weight classes. 
We’ve done 2 Brackastologies so far. RBY has been in both. 
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6267660-brackastrology-i-the-first-brackastrology
https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6277359-brackastrology-part-deux-the-return-of-brackastrology
And thank you for the kind words. I am humbled :)

I have no issues how you deal with the frosh.

Can you explain the Shakur ranking of 7? He started off 2 weeks ago at 5, dropped to 6 and now 7? All he’s done is maul people.

You are rewarding guys with multiple losses by keeping them ahead of him. Once ZZ lost Shak should have moved up not down. Same with Venz this weekend. Shak should be 3 based on your initial rankings. The guys below shouldn’t jump him

This is the only headscratcher for me

Thanks in advance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BigTenFanboy 1,554]

1 hour ago, pish6969 said:

 

 

I have no issues how you deal with the frosh.

Can you explain the Shakur ranking of 7? He started off 2 weeks ago at 5, dropped to 6 and now 7? All he’s done is maul people.

You are rewarding guys with multiple losses by keeping them ahead of him. Once ZZ lost Shak should have moved up not down. Same with Venz this weekend. Shak should be 3 based on your initial rankings. The guys below shouldn’t jump him

This is the only headscratcher for me

Thanks in advance


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

Intermat agrees with you and has Shakur ranked 3rd.

Edited December 18, 2018 by BigTenFanboy

[TBar1977 3,454]

I just think rankings should be based on all available information and, at the end of the day, should be what the rankers truly believe. If you truly believe a freshman is better than a 5th year senior, then rank them that way. Flo has Dhesi ranked #1 at Hwt despite the fact his record this year is 0-0, so that is based on past accomplishments. How is that any different than weighing a freshman's past accomplishments? If that freshman has accomplishments good enough to make you believe he is better than half your top 20, then just rank them that way. 

Football and basketball would never do what wrestling does, and in this limited case I think they are right and we are wrong in how we go about things. 

Edited December 18, 2018 by TBar1977

[pish6969 256]

Intermat agrees with you and has Shakur ranked 3rd.

All the other services have Shak 3 or 4. I just want to know their logic on this one


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[Zebra 545]

All rankings are subjective to the beliefs, prejudices, and processes of the group or individual who does them.

I pay them little heed but I do like the career results based rankings done by WrestleStat. 

[russelscout 1,162]

10 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

we keep the 'obvious' top tier true frosh guys ranked low or not at all until the wrestle their way up the rankings so we can maintain a consistent set of standards that we can apply when a non-so-obvious top tier true frosh comes along. 

When its obvious, why not just rank with that in mind, and when not-so-obvious do the same. As a ranker, you have to expect to receive criticism no matter what right? 

[klehner 238]

So both RBY and Vito Arujau make their Flo ranking appearances at #17 at 133 and 125, respectively.  Vito took two from RBY this summer in FS at 61kg.

Who will finish the season ranked higher (both before and after NCAAs)?

RBY shows Micic and Pletcher on his schedule, while Vito shows Glory on his, for their top ten opponents.

[Jaroslav Hasek 1,762]

1 hour ago, russelscout said:

When its obvious, why not just rank with that in mind, and when not-so-obvious do the same. As a ranker, you have to expect to receive criticism no matter what right? 

of course the criticism is part of the job. i'm glad there is criticism, otherwise it means no one is paying attention! can't rank guys when it's obvious and not guys when its not so obvious. the line is always blurry. no way to do it objectively so we don't! for the subjective, please see brackastrology!

[russelscout 1,162]

1 minute ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

of course the criticism is part of the job. i'm glad there is criticism, otherwise it means no one is paying attention! can't rank guys when it's obvious and not guys when its not so obvious. the line is always blurry. no way to do it objectively so we don't! for the subjective, please see brackastrology!

This is good stuff. I like the brackastrology. Glad you can take the criticism. I have been hyper critical of the flo guys on here and HawkeyeReport. It is also the only the only wrestling media I consume; must be doing something right. 

[TBar1977 3,454]

1 hour ago, klehner said:

So both RBY and Vito Arujau make their Flo ranking appearances at #17 at 133 and 125, respectively.  Vito took two from RBY this summer in FS at 61kg.

Who will finish the season ranked higher (both before and after NCAAs)?

RBY shows Micic and Pletcher on his schedule, while Vito shows Glory on his, for their top ten opponents.

RBY also has the Scuffle vs. Arujau having South Beach Duals. I think RBY has the tougher bracket by a fair amount, so Vito should finish higher.

Edited December 18, 2018 by TBar1977