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ESPN reporting on wrestling referee incident

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6 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

During weighing the ref is supposed to do a hair, nails, and skin check. Hes supposed to check for special equipment as well before the kid ever steps of the scale.

 

I alluded to this earlier.  Technically though I believe it is the wrestler/coach’s responsibility to show the referee.  A previous version of the rule book stated it must be worn to weigh ins (http://www.utahwrestling.org/2014_15WrestlingRuleBook.pdf) but not sure what the most recent wording is as I couldn’t find this year’s rule book online. It is however included as a “point of emphasis” and only states that it must be done before wrestling and that it’s “reasonable” to show it at weigh-ins - https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-points-of-emphasis-2018-19/

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5 hours ago, ironmonkey said:

Props to the kid for keeping focus and winning!  Seems to be an afterthought but should be highlighted.  

 

Refs using racial slurs at social gatherings with other officials shouldn't be allowed to continue to officiate if there is sufficient evidence of the usage.  

 

Past incidents shouldn't be used as evidence of latent motivations that can't be proven.  The rules are the rules and the ref evidently was just enforcing them which is his job.  Any other narrative isn't very objective.  Unfortunately most news sources are running with narratives that ignore investigating the equipment issue that led to the hair cutting altogether.

 

It is sad that a kid is in the middle of a story blowing up on Twitter where thousands of "adults" will argue endlessly.  I imagine that would be super confusing at that age and impossible to ignore.  I hope his coaches find a way to reframe all this into a positive growing experience for him.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed all around.  The outrage this has caused especially against some of the people that didn’t have much role in it is a little ridiculous IMO.  For example, people mad at the trainer for doing what she was told and the wrestler apparently agreed to.  Heck even the guy that posted the original video issued an apology because people were getting on him for framing it as the kid being a team player and not the race issue!

I hope the coach makes a statement.  I saw a post from a pretty credible source that the assistant coach admitted to not having the proper cover (and potentially may have just been a winter beanie type thing).  Maybe the ref doesn’t deserve it due to his history, but if he didn’t do anything wrong here hopefully someone will clear it up.  Because most of the outrage is coming from people that know nothing about wrestling (and it’s rules).

 

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Becoming a wrestling ref in NJ is such a joke.Youve to attend class for 3 hours once a week for 16 weeks on top of that you can only ref JV.Then you've to ref at multiple events for FREE while the head officials sit around all day supposedly evaluating you but you never see your evaluations.The kicker is the head officials make the $ they take the $ and split it 2 or 3 ways depending on how many crooks show up to "evaluate".No matter your knowledge of the sport or how good you are you must attend class and ref for free at multiple events for 2 years.If your good you will get JV events that do pay but in a class of 8 you might see 1 or 2 guys that actually get those events.Its a total scam and joke.And anyone who reads this who is familiar with NJ officials will tell you it's all about them the old guard believes they're the show.

Edited by justafan

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Yeah I don’t get how everyone is so mad at the ref. The NHFS makes these stupid rules and then they look like the bad guy for enforcing them. I have zero tolerance for racism and if he has a history of racism then he should have been barred a long time ago. However I see nothing wrong with him enforcing the rules that he is required to enforce. I don’t get the outrage at anything other than the rule. 

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I must be older than a lot of you guys - but back in the late 70's when I was wrestling, a lot of guys wore their hair long - and I saw a lot of impromptu haircuts given at weigh ins.  It was no big deal back then, we'd laugh about it.

Edited by red blades

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9 minutes ago, red blades said:

I must be older than a lot of you guys - but back in the late 70's when I was wrestling, a lot of guys wore their hair long - and I saw a lot of impromptu haircuts given at weigh ins.  It was no big deal back then, we'd laugh about it.

All racial animus aside - implied or actual I have no clue - I remember the same thing.   It was hilarious when guys tried to beat the rule and got called on it.   Typically it was people who cared about their hair and wanted the 70's look.  I had to cut my own a few times with the tape scissors and ended up with hack jobs.   Served me right. 

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10 hours ago, Sheerstress said:

Question:  in a situation like this, where a wrestler has hair extending below the neck, it IS within today's rules to use a hair covering (e.g. water polo cap) underneath the headgear, correct?

 

10 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Which he had but the ref would not allow him to wear.

Was the hair covering one that could be attached to the ear guards? 

Edited by HurricaneWrestling2

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21 minutes ago, red blades said:

I must be older than a lot of you guys - but back in the late 70's when I was wrestling, a lot of guys wore their hair long - and I saw a lot of impromptu haircuts given at weigh ins.  It was no big deal back then, we'd laugh about it.

 

7 minutes ago, TFBJR said:

 

All racial animus aside - implied or actual I have no clue - I remember the same thing.   It was hilarious when guys tried to beat the rule and got called on it.   Typically it was people who cared about their hair and wanted the 70's look.  I had to cut my own a few times with the tape scissors and ended up with hack jobs.   Served me right. 

Ha!  We'd wet our hair down and slap some Dippity-Do on it to beat the weigh-in check for hair over the ears. 

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27 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

No but that's not my point. The point is allowing him to wear the hair cover would have avoided this whole situation.

 

Well your point is wrong (in reference to Sheerstress's post) because reportedly the cover that he had did not comply with the rules (since it was not attached to the headgear).

I just saw something claiming that a member of the opposing team did have the correct headgear/cover.   Maybe we should be asking for the opposing coach's head because he could have let Mr. Johnson borrow it.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

 

Well your point is wrong (in reference to Sheerstress's post) because reportedly the cover that he had did not comply with the rules (since it was not attached to the headgear).

I just saw something claiming that a member of the opposing team did have the correct headgear/cover.   Maybe we should be asking for the opposing coach's head because he could have let Mr. Johnson borrow it.

Could have. 

My point is this whole blow up could have been avoided by allowing the kid use the hair cover that he had.

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24 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

 

Well your point is wrong (in reference to Sheerstress's post) because reportedly the cover that he had did not comply with the rules (since it was not attached to the headgear).

I just saw something claiming that a member of the opposing team did have the correct headgear/cover.   Maybe we should be asking for the opposing coach's head because he could have let Mr. Johnson borrow it.

And maybe the ref was thinking of just letting it go - but then maybe the opposing coach said something to the ref, and the ref had to call this.  A lot of possibilities here that may not be reported, but should be considered before jumping to conclusions.

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35 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Could have. 

My point is this whole blow up could have been avoided by allowing the kid use the hair cover that he had.

We claim we want be less subjective in wrestling, but then we want to pick and choose which rules should be enforced. The ref could lose his job for not enforcing the rule. Ironically he somehow ends up losing it for enforcing the rule. I agree the rule is dumb... but I just don’t see how we can say to ignore the rule. Change the rules or enforce them and live with the consequences. 

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11 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

We claim we want be less subjective in wrestling, but then we want to pick and choose which rules should be enforced. The ref could lose his job for not enforcing the rule. Ironically he somehow ends up losing it for enforcing the rule. I agree the rule is dumb... but I just don’t see how we can say to ignore the rule. Change the rules or enforce them and live with the consequences. 

I highly doubt he would have lost his job had he let the kid use the hair cover he had.

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2 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I highly doubt he would have lost his job had he let the kid use the hair cover he had.

I agree but on principle a ref that willfully defied the rules could potentially lose their job. My point is you can’t blame him... it’s the rule that’s the problem. As well as the public reaction from people who have no understanding of wrestling rules.

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7 minutes ago, Eagle26 said:

I agree but on principle a ref that willfully defied the rules could potentially lose their job. My point is you can’t blame him... it’s the rule that’s the problem. As well as the public reaction from people who have no understanding of wrestling rules.

It doesnt matter if the public has no understanding of wrestling rules. In today's world you have to watch what you do and say. To navigate this world today you have to know when to and not to follow certain rules especially when working with kids. I can bet you the ref right now wishes he had just let the kid use the hair cover he had.

Have you ever had someone bend a rule for you?

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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3 hours ago, justafan said:

Becoming a wrestling ref in NJ is such a joke.Youve to attend class for 3 hours once a week for 16 weeks on top of that you can only ref JV.Then you've to ref at multiple events for FREE while the head officials sit around all day supposedly evaluating you but you never see your evaluations.The kicker is the head officials make the $ they take the $ and split it 2 or 3 ways depending on how many crooks show up to "evaluate".No matter your knowledge of the sport or how good you are you must attend class and ref for free at multiple events for 2 years.If your good you will get JV events that do pay but in a class of 8 you might see 1 or 2 guys that actually get those events.Its a total scam and joke.And anyone who reads this who is familiar with NJ officials will tell you it's all about them the old guard believes they're the show.

Only a few of the "old Guard" are show boats, but they are decent at making calls. I could do without their theatrics though. 

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9 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

During weighing the ref is supposed to do a hair, nails, and skin check. Hes supposed to check for special equipment as well before the kid ever steps of the scale.

This - 100% agree

Unfortunately at this time no one I have heard discuss or saw in print has questioned or discussed this point. 

It should have been corrected if an issue in the locker room as in cut the hair or don't weigh in and don't wrestle. If he was told prior to the match to cut his hair and he didn't, then I can see why the matside hair cut occured.  In my experience as a coach and competitor I thought hair, nails, equipment was compliant before stepping on the scale. None of this excuses the referees past behavior or present motivations, but it would explain the spectacle that occurred.

With that said I don't see how you can allow this official to continue to be licensed. If you have two strikes that gain negative national attention,. I am not giving you an opportunity for a third. I worked a 10 hour day yesterday and drove 300 miles. I listened to ESPN, FOX, Mad Dog, and CBS radio at different times, and this incident was discussed heavily on all networks. 

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2 hours ago, red blades said:

I must be older than a lot of you guys - but back in the late 70's when I was wrestling, a lot of guys wore their hair long - and I saw a lot of impromptu haircuts given at weigh ins.  It was no big deal back then, we'd laugh about it.

I agree with you. This happened all the time when I wrestled (graduated a decade ago) as well. And even in the past few years as a coach. 

My thing with this is why was this not taken care of at weigh ins. The ref is responsible for doing hair and nails check so, why didn’t this come up then? 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, KSchlosser said:

This - 100% agree

Unfortunately at this time no one I have heard discuss or saw in print has questioned or discussed this point. 

It should have been corrected if an issue in the locker room as in cut the hair or don't weigh in and don't wrestle. If he was told prior to the match to cut his hair and he didn't, then I can see why the matside hair cut occured.  In my experience as a coach and competitor I thought hair, nails, equipment was compliant before stepping on the scale. None of this excuses the referees past behavior or present motivations, but it would explain the spectacle that occurred.

With that said I don't see how you can allow this official to continue to be licensed. If you have two strikes that gain negative national attention,. I am not giving you an opportunity for a third. I worked a 10 hour day yesterday and drove 300 miles. I listened to ESPN, FOX, Mad Dog, and CBS radio at different times, and this incident was discussed heavily on all networks. 

Agreed. Even if the ref was following the rule 100% accurately and "did nothing wrong" theres no way the governing body will allow him to continue officiating. It will be too much of a PR nightmare for them to deal with. 

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A friend of mine just had similar situation here in NY. The ref made his son cut his hair before a high school duel. I had a teammate that had to shave his face before a duel. I’m glad I never had that problem still can’t grow facial hair.

Edited by Sublime607

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53 minutes ago, Sublime607 said:

A friend of mine just had similar situation here in NY. The ref made his son cut his hair before a high school duel. I had a teammate that had to shave his face before a duel. I’m glad I never had that problem still can’t grow facial hair.

Well, if you had hair as abrasive as an unshaved face, you could have been required to shave your head, or wear a legal head cover.

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