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WillieBoy

you make finals - and don't wrestle?

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This comes from the Smith/Smith 174 pound quit at Reno. It also applies in other circumstances though this is the more prevalent.

Teammates made the finals in the same weight class. Chose not to wrestle for the title.

Absent an honest medical forfeit they should wrestle. If they choose not to wrestle they should be disqualified. Both of them and any team points taken away.

You show up, you wrestle. Teammate, buddy, brother or whatever, if you walk away, one or both - all team points should be taken off the board. If it is teammates - both lose all scoring points. Register both as a Loss for the event. Won't go so far as to call for full forfeits back on the matches already wrestled, but any advancement points or bonus points all taken from the team score.

You enter, you wrestle. If you don't want to wrestle - stay home.

Edited by WillieBoy

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8 minutes ago, WillieBoy said:

This comes from the Smith/Smith 174 pound quit at Reno. It also applies in other circumstances though this is the more prevalent.

Teammates made the finals in the same weight class. Chose not to wrestle for the title.

Absent an honest medical forfeit they should wrestle. If they choose not to wrestle they should be disqualified. Both of them and any team points taken away.

You show up, you wrestle. Teammate, buddy, brother or whatever, if you walk away, one or both - all team points should be taken off the board. If it is teammates - both lose all scoring points. Register both as a Loss for the event. Won't go so far as to call for full forfeits back on the matches already wrestled, but any advancement points or bonus points all taken from the team score.

You enter, you wrestle. If you don't want to wrestle - stay home.

How do you determine if someone is truly injured?

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Rumor coming out of OSU is that Joseph Smith had a tummy ache and Jacobe Smith had a sore pinky, which according to the tournament director and head official qualifies as and honest medical forfeit. The OSU boosters still decided to do the right thing and reimburse those that were in attendance 15% of 1% of the admission fee since there were 679 bouts wrestled and the fans missed out on 1.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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The only way to make the change is for fans to put pressure on them. You can’t take away team points. You can’t DQ them. There isn’t a good way to prove that they did it on purpose, to the point where official action is warranted 

I lost a ton of respect for Jacobe and Smith and coach smith too. I hope OSU fans hold them accountable. Embarssing stuff 

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Isn't that the role of a coach, to make decisions in the best interest of his athletes, regardless of if he loses the respect of uninformed observers?

There are so many reasons why it could have been the right call it's not even worth going down the rabbit hole of speculation and hypotheticals.  Coach Smith has earned his stripes, I will choose to give the benefit of the doubt it was the right call, whatever the reasoning.

I turned in for this match as I was interested as well, and shared your disappointment when it didn't happen. It isn't incumbent on the staff to play out a wrestleoff in the Reno finals, and they earned the latitude of that decision by placing two wrestlers in the championship match.  I've gone on long enough, but the outrage here is a little over the top in reaction to a minor disappointment.

Edited by JHRoseWrestling

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For what it’s worth joe smith did have to take injury time in his semifinal for something in the first period.  I couldn’t tell what exactly happened but as soon as he got the takedown he looked concerned about something and then signaled to the ref for a timeout.  He then went on to destroy Hughes of MSU.  He is also the one that MFF the finals,  maybe it wasn’t bad enough to not finish the match with Hughes but wasn’t worth wrestling a teammate in the finals of a meaningless tournament.

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7 hours ago, red blades said:

Simple solution - if a wrestler enters a tournament, weighs in and then MFF's out - count it as an official loss.

What if the guy really is injured and the loss(es) ends up effecting his seed at the conference tournament or nationals.  Then you're penalizing the guy for getting injured, and possibly screwing up the bracket for others too.

Edited by KCMO2

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1 hour ago, KCMO2 said:

What if the guy really is injured and the loss(es) ends up effecting his seed at the conference tournament or nationals.  Then you're penalizing the guy for getting injured, and possibly screwing up the bracket for others too.

What if the guy is really injured after a match actually starts, and defaults out - that counts as a loss, right?  And that would also have seeding implications, no?

What I am suggesting is that we treat the entire tournament as a competition, not as a series of individual matches that wrestles can pick or choose if they want to compete.  you can make dropping out in the middle of a tournament... or not.  It really depends what the people want.

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17 minutes ago, red blades said:

What if the guy is really injured after a match actually starts, and defaults out - that counts as a loss, right?  And that would also have seeding implications, no?

What I am suggesting is that we treat the entire tournament as a competition, not as a series of individual matches that wrestles can pick or choose if they want to compete.  you can make dropping out in the middle of a tournament... or not.  It really depends what the people want.

I may be wrong on this, but an inj. def. counts as a loss, but the wrestler can continue in the tournament after that, so they take 1 loss.  I believe a forfeit does not take a loss, but they are out for the rest of the tournament and each match after that is considered a forfeit.  So they may end up taking multiple losses if you were to count MFF's as a loss.

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Another take on this. 

If they had wrestled, the resulting video would be a great scouting tool for opposing coaches. They obviously wrestle quite a bit in practice and know how to best score and defend against each other. Why provide this intel to other coaches to use against them both in the future?

Perhaps this was part of John Smith’s rationale?

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Are you guys kidding me?  I can see the argument when it is against an opposing team, but there are a billion reasons for teammates not to wrestle each other and what is the benefit to OkState if they did?  Also, this happens ALL THE TIME in opens(especially the first half of the season). Add in the fact that it was the 1st time Joe had wrestled and this outrage goes beyond....

Edited by MSU158

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On 12/23/2018 at 6:35 AM, MSU158 said:

Are you guys kidding me?  I can see the argument when it is against an opposing team, but there are a billion reasons for teammates not to wrestle each other and what is the benefit to OkState if they did?  Also, this happens ALL THE TIME in opens(especially the first half of the season). Add in the fact that it was the 1st time Joe had wrestled and this outrage goes beyond....

In this case, what would be the most compelling reason for them not to wrestle?

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19 minutes ago, Swayz said:

Same thing with siblings....sometimes siblings go to different schools or hell are at the same school and the way the bracket falls they meet up....wrestle your dam brother!

I remember years ago the Rappo brothers were supposed to wrestle at the Keystone Classic. They flipped a coin and one forfeited out.

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The Board:  why aren’t Joe and Jakobe wrestling?

Coach Smith: Um, he's sick. My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Joe pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

 

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nah ... Joe left early to go fishing, Jocobe stayed to accept the forfeit & first place.  Don't know if Flo still has video up but if you rewind can clearly see the Gone Fish'n sign in Joe's corner.  Someone is just try'n to make a big deal outa nut'n here.  ;_;

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Jiujitsu had this problem but they fixed it.  If you have 2 guys from the same team competing, they get put on the same side of the bracket.  If they want to pull it then, one guy just goes home with nothing.  Thanks for your entry fee.

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