Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
gowrestle

Hair Cut

Recommended Posts

JB said he has never seen a wrestler get his hair cut. Well, back in the sixties and seventies, when long hair was popular, many wrestlers got their hair cut before the season started. As a coach, I had a ref strictly enforce the hair rule and two of my kids had to trim the back of their hair before a dual meet.  

But remember, because JB is a NCAA, World, and Olympic champion, he is correct. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, gowrestle said:

JB said he has never seen a wrestler get his hair cut. Well, back in the sixties and seventies, when long hair was popular, many wrestlers got their hair cut before the season started. As a coach, I had a ref strictly enforce the hair rule and two of my kids had to trim the back of their hair before a dual meet.  

But remember, because JB is a NCAA, World, and Olympic champion, he is correct. 

It's funny you say that because that's the exact response some people are giving when they get the rules explained to them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the popular media this story has been so politicized and readers are fed a story-line that has a limited explanation of the actual rule-based dynamics at play; I have found that trying to explain the nature of the rules and the situation to those wishing to see this as some racially-motivated aggression will simply not hear you - perhaps a reflection of society more broadly.  I don't know the ref from a hole in the ground, but I am afraid that the system will make him a scapegoat for simply enforcing the rules with which he was presented.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gowrestle said:

JB said he has never seen a wrestler get his hair cut. Well, back in the sixties and seventies, when long hair was popular, many wrestlers got their hair cut before the season started. As a coach, I had a ref strictly enforce the hair rule and two of my kids had to trim the back of their hair before a dual meet.  

But remember, because JB is a NCAA, World, and Olympic champion, he is correct. 

You couldn’t have just kept this all in one thread? You needed your point heard separately?

ok. I’ll bite.

1. It isn’t clear cut the ref was in the right, even according to the rules

2. This ref needs to have common sense. Is he so ignorant about what dreadlocks represent? What they might mean to this kid? It is not the same as a white kid with long hair 

3. The ref is racist. He has a significant prior incident supporting this claim. Why should he be given the benefit of the doubt? Just enforcing the rule? Are you that naive? Do you also think cops who beat black protesters in the 60s are off the hook because it was the law? (Obviously one is far more severe than the other, but the logic is the same)

4. Why not listen to both coaches and try to find a solution that isn’t so blatantly ridiculous? Maybe borrow the legal headgear the other team had? 

5. This guy has a reputation for abusing his power as the ref. Do you agree that this should be taken into account?

 

pretending that this wasn’t a decision steeped in racism is absurd. Use some common sense. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, npope said:

In the popular media this story has been so politicized and readers are fed a story-line that has a limited explanation of the actual rule-based dynamics at play; I have found that trying to explain the nature of the rules and the situation to those wishing to see this as some racially-motivated aggression will simply not hear you - perhaps a reflection of society more broadly.  I don't know the ref from a hole in the ground, but I am afraid that the system will make him a scapegoat for simply enforcing the rules with which he was presented.

Well you should do some more reading about this ref then. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

You couldn’t have just kept this all in one thread? You needed your point heard separately?

ok. I’ll bite.

1. It isn’t clear cut the ref was in the right, even according to the rules

2. This ref needs to have common sense. Is he so ignorant about what dreadlocks represent? What they might mean to this kid? It is not the same as a white kid with long hair 

3. The ref is racist. He has a significant prior incident supporting this claim. Why should he be given the benefit of the doubt? Just enforcing the rule? Are you that naive? Do you also think cops who beat black protesters in the 60s are off the hook because it was the law? (Obviously one is far more severe than the other, but the logic is the same)

4. Why not listen to both coaches and try to find a solution that isn’t so blatantly ridiculous? Maybe borrow the legal headgear the other team had? 

5. This guy has a reputation for abusing his power as the ref. Do you agree that this should be taken into account?

 

pretending that this wasn’t a decision steeped in racism is absurd. Use some common sense. 

 

1.  I guess it’s not 100% confirmed he was right, but all actual evidence I’ve seen points to that being the case.  Is there anything factual backing up the fact that he wasn’t?

2.  Irrelevant.  He didn’t force him to cut them and again, it’s the rule.  If nothing else this goes back to the coach.  It’s an early season dual meet that at the end of the day doesn’t mean much.  The coach could have said just FFT and we’ll get the proper cover for when it actually matters.

3. He shouldn’t be given benefit of the doubt, but again all available evidence so far points to him being correct.

4. We don’t know what happened.  Maybe the opposing coach was the one that complained in the first place?  These schools may not like each other.

5.  Source? 

 

Edited by 1032004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Housebuye said:

pretending that this wasn’t a decision steeped in racism is absurd. Use some common sense. 

The ref said racist things in the past, and the hair rules have racial implications. But, let's not appeal to "common sense." "Common sense" is often contradictory. "Curiosity killed the cat" is commonsensical, but so is "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." 

The prohibition against cornrows will obviously target black athletes. But, I don't think the prohibition is stupid. Cornrows are abrasive, like 5 o'clock shadow. I'm not equating cornrows with the dreads here. I'm just pointing out that some rules do have racial implications that aren't exactly racist.

Wrestlers know things about race on a visceral level. Due to socio-economic factors, I tended to hang out with the black kids on my college team. One time, we were chatting about how different people smell, and I learned that it is common knowledge among certain folks that white guys smell like wet dog. I was dubious but, after a very unscientifc survey, I concluded that my friends were right: I did smell like a wet dog after practice. What to make of this? I don't know. Racism is complicated. 

https://m.facebook.com/VICE/posts/1331585123541409

Edited by jackwebster
Clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

You couldn’t have just kept this all in one thread? You needed your point heard separately?

ok. I’ll bite.

1. It isn’t clear cut the ref was in the right, even according to the rules

2. This ref needs to have common sense. Is he so ignorant about what dreadlocks represent? What they might mean to this kid? It is not the same as a white kid with long hair 

3. The ref is racist. He has a significant prior incident supporting this claim. Why should he be given the benefit of the doubt? Just enforcing the rule? Are you that naive? Do you also think cops who beat black protesters in the 60s are off the hook because it was the law? (Obviously one is far more severe than the other, but the logic is the same)

4. Why not listen to both coaches and try to find a solution that isn’t so blatantly ridiculous? Maybe borrow the legal headgear the other team had? 

5. This guy has a reputation for abusing his power as the ref. Do you agree that this should be taken into account?

 

pretending that this wasn’t a decision steeped in racism is absurd. Use some common sense. 

 

I reckon I must be ignorant....what DO dreadlocks represent?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sharing some alternative facts, since it's so fun:

* My brother, back in late 90's, had a huge mop of a head of hair

* His hair was so coarse, that it was actually difficult (and still is today) to cut with scissors

* He is Caucasian

* When he went to Districts his senior year, he was forced to cut his hair, matside, because the opponent complained that his hair was "cutting him".  Note:  his opponents forehead DID have micro-abrasions and was in need of blood time

* The scissors broke when attempting to cut his hair... so they had to use a 2nd pair. 

Moral of the story... If the hair, prosthetic, denture, headgear, faceguard, penis ring, whatever poses a potential danger to themselves or to the opponent, it should be removed and/or modified to reduce the danger.  My brother understood it, regrettably, but now we look back and have a story to laugh about at Christmas get-togethers.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Pffft. They used to make us SHAVE if we had any facial hair back in the old days. They made me dry shave off my ****ty teenage mustache (in the corner of the mat) when I was 15!

Had to have five of my athletes shave at the last tournament we were at.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, MedicineMan said:

I reckon I must be ignorant....what DO dreadlocks represent?

Considering dreadlocks have been used by pretty much every race and ethnicity across the world for the last 4,500 years I too would like to know what they represent to the black community that makes it different from any other culture who chooses to wear their hair long.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Housebuye said:

You couldn’t have just kept this all in one thread? You needed your point heard separately?

ok. I’ll bite.

1. It isn’t clear cut the ref was in the right, even according to the rules

2. This ref needs to have common sense. Is he so ignorant about what dreadlocks represent? What they might mean to this kid? It is not the same as a white kid with long hair 

3. The ref is racist. He has a significant prior incident supporting this claim. Why should he be given the benefit of the doubt? Just enforcing the rule? Are you that naive? Do you also think cops who beat black protesters in the 60s are off the hook because it was the law? (Obviously one is far more severe than the other, but the logic is the same)

4. Why not listen to both coaches and try to find a solution that isn’t so blatantly ridiculous? Maybe borrow the legal headgear the other team had? 

5. This guy has a reputation for abusing his power as the ref. Do you agree that this should be taken into account?

 

pretending that this wasn’t a decision steeped in racism is absurd. Use some common sense. 

 

You are making assumptions without knowing all the facts. We may never know. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, gowrestle said:

JB said he has never seen a wrestler get his hair cut. Well, back in the sixties and seventies, when long hair was popular, many wrestlers got their hair cut before the season started. As a coach, I had a ref strictly enforce the hair rule and two of my kids had to trim the back of their hair before a dual meet.  

But remember, because JB is a NCAA, World, and Olympic champion, he is correct. 

I was surprised that JB said he'd never seen this before.  While not as prevalent as it was doing the "hippie" era you cite, its not that uncommon.  Ben Askren tweeted that he had to trim his locks on more than one occasion in college.  (He also said he wore a hair net in high school in order to comply with the rules.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MedicineMan said:

I reckon I must be ignorant....what DO dreadlocks represent?

I dunno, but I found the below-linked article funny.  It's about NBA player Jeremy Lin (Chinese-American) who grew dreadlocks one season only to have ESPN analyst Kenyon Martin (African-American) call him out for "cultural appropriation."  Lin thanked Martin for sharing his opinion.  Then he added "At the end of the day, I appreciate that I have dreads and you have Chinese tattoos because I think its a sign of respect."

Just proves the old maxim that "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/jeremy-lin-hair-dreadlocks-kenyon-martin-lil-b-curse-nets/ 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Perry said:

Considering dreadlocks have been used by pretty much every race and ethnicity across the world for the last 4,500 years I too would like to know what they represent to the black community that makes it different from any other culture who chooses to wear their hair long.

Just because something is used by other cultures doesn’t mean it has to represent that forever. 

The swastika (or Abe dtrmerly similar design) was common in India prior to the Nazis too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jackwebster said:

The ref said racist things in the past, and the hair rules have racial implications. But, let's not appeal to "common sense." "Common sense" is often contradictory. "Curiosity killed the cat" is commonsensical, but so is "Nothing ventured, nothing gained." 

The prohibition against cornrows will obviously target black athletes. But, I don't think the prohibition is stupid. Cornrows are abrasive, like 5 o'clock shadow. I'm not equating cornrows with the dreads here. I'm just pointing out that some rules do have racial implications that aren't exactly racist.

Wrestlers know things about race on a visceral level. Due to socio-economic factors, I tended to hang out with the black kids on my college team. One time, we were chatting about how different people smell, and I learned that it is common knowledge among certain folks that white guys smell like wet dog. I was dubious but, after a very unscientifc survey, I concluded that my friends were right: I did smell like a wet dog after practice. What to make of this? I don't know. Racism is complicated. 

https://m.facebook.com/VICE/posts/1331585123541409

I’m not judging the rule, I’m judging the enforcement. Common sense indicates this rule should not be implemented this way. 

Weird attack on common sense. 

It is reasonable to assume that a racist person who then acts in a way that can be easily interpreted as racist made that decision based on racism. Of course that can’t be proven. I don’t know what was in the refs head. It is logical to think he was motivated by racism. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, 1032004 said:

1.  I guess it’s not 100% confirmed he was right, but all actual evidence I’ve seen points to that being the case.  Is there anything factual backing up the fact that he wasn’t?

2.  Irrelevant.  He didn’t force him to cut them and again, it’s the rule.  If nothing else this goes back to the coach.  It’s an early season dual meet that at the end of the day doesn’t mean much.  The coach could have said just FFT and we’ll get the proper cover for when it actually matters.

3. He shouldn’t be given benefit of the doubt, but again all available evidence so far points to him being correct.

4. We don’t know what happened.  Maybe the opposing coach was the one that complained in the first place?  These schools may not like each other.

5.  Source? 

 

I think reading Christian Pyles Twitter would help address most of these questions. I’ve linked it below. Would be interested to hear your thoughts. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/cpyles8?lang=en&ref_src=twsrc^appleios|twcamp^safari|twgr^search

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I think reading Christian Pyles Twitter would help address most of these questions. I’ve linked it below. Would be interested to hear your thoughts. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/cpyles8?lang=en&ref_src=twsrc^appleios|twcamp^safari|twgr^search

Thanks for the link.  I appreciate his fact-based defense, but I actually think his posts confirm my thoughts.  I’ll address each one:

1.  Comment about Maloney making matches “about him.”  Has already been stated and I wouldn’t disagree.  Fail to see how that’s relevant though.

2.  Comments that the equipment should be inspected at weigh ins.   His “eyewitness account” is the first report I’ve seen about what happened at weigh ins, so good reporting on his part.  He stated that the official said he needed a head cover but didn’t inspect it (which is what I thought most likely happened).  It’s not clear how specific he was in stating the type of cover; but seeing as how the wrestler and coach were reportedly educated on the type of cover needed twice already this season, even if he wasn’t specific (and I’m betting he was) they should have known the type of cover required. 

Also, here is a link straight from the NFHS 2018-2019 rules points of emphasis (which this was):

https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/wrestling-points-of-emphasis-2018-19/

It only states that it is “reasonable” to check it at weigh ins/skin checks, not that it is required.

3.  Comments about the hair length not being the issue, but because it was not “in it’s natural state.”  I obviously haven’t seen the kid’s hair up close, but he was specifically told by 2 other officials other than this one that he needed a cover, so I’m going to go with he needed a cover for whatever reason.  I’m a little skeptical about the claim that the length wasn’t the issue though.  If it wasn’t, then shouldn’t he have not been allowed to wrestle at all without the proper cover?  I believe the line in the rulebook about “natural state” states that that is the baseline for the length regulation, not that hair is necessarily required to be in its natural state to wrestle. 

Edited by 1032004

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Housebuye said:

I think reading Christian Pyles Twitter would help address most of these questions. I’ve linked it below. Would be interested to hear your thoughts. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/cpyles8?lang=en&ref_src=twsrc^appleios|twcamp^safari|twgr^search

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×