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Best High School Team Ever?

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Perennial powerhouse Blair Academy may be fielding the best high school wrestling team ever  this year. They have already won the Walsh Ironman by over 100 points more than the #2 ranked team in the country (Wyoming Seminary) and the Beast of the East (which included the #2 and 3 teams in the country) with 9 finalists and 7 champions; and they currently have 11 wrestlers ranked nationally, including 2 #-1s and 9 in the top 5 of their respective weights. Their next big competition will be next weekend at the Geary Invitational in OK, then the Who's #1 Duals w/ Clovis North (CA), St. Edward (OH), Wyoming Seminary (PA), La Salle (OH), and Easton (PA), then consecutive weekend duals against the #2 and #3 national powers, Wyoming Seminary and Bergen Catholic. Barring illness or injury, this team may leave a mark seldom if ever seen in high school sports.

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8 hours ago, fudge_tunnel said:

I’d be more interested if the topic was “Best Public High School Team Ever”....

I agree.  I think its much more interesting to find this info out.  That means the local water supply was going crazy with wrestling-ide, and it would be good to know where this is located.  I know of a few public schools in Ohio that had some stellar teams, but to everyone's point... they can't compete with high schools that can recruit.  St. Ed's and Walsh Jesuit were the top teams in the state when I was a young buck, and although some public schools challenged them, it was brief.  

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37 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

I agree.  I think its much more interesting to find this info out.  That means the local water supply was going crazy with wrestling-ide, and it would be good to know where this is located.  I know of a few public schools in Ohio that had some stellar teams, but to everyone's point... they can't compete with high schools that can recruit.  St. Ed's and Walsh Jesuit were the top teams in the state when I was a young buck, and although some public schools challenged them, it was brief.  

While I agree, let's not kid ourselves and think public schools don't recruit just as much as private schools. They may not be as good at it but one only has to look in Las Vegas at football players or California in every sport to see that public schools are also on the recruiting bandwagon. Sadly, the days of completely home grown teams may be gone.

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19 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

While I agree, let's not kid ourselves and think public schools don't recruit just as much as private schools. They may not be as good at it but one only has to look in Las Vegas at football players or California in every sport to see that public schools are also on the recruiting bandwagon. Sadly, the days of completely home grown teams may be gone.

I think there's a big difference regarding the concept of recruiting when it's public vs. private.  To suggest otherwise is a bit of an overreach.  Public schools, in many states, require you to live within a certain number of miles, or else your're not permitted to attend.  Privates do not have this restriction... This is just one of MANY differences.  Also... as a parent... if my son says.. "hey pop... I wanna wrestle for public school XYZ because they're bad@$$", I will need to also evaluate their academics.  Publics run the gamut, traditionally.  Privates (as a generalization) tend to have top notch academics to boot.  The list goes on and on...

So... I'll express my identical interest and statement that I made before... I'd like to see the which is the best PUBLIC school.  In Ohio, Brecksville, Wadsworth, and Massillon Perry have been very very good over the past 20-25 years.  But the best in the country?  Who else is up there? 

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37 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

I think there's a big difference regarding the concept of recruiting when it's public vs. private.  To suggest otherwise is a bit of an overreach.  Public schools, in many states, require you to live within a certain number of miles, or else your're not permitted to attend.  Privates do not have this restriction... This is just one of MANY differences.  Also... as a parent... if my son says.. "hey pop... I wanna wrestle for public school XYZ because they're bad@$$", I will need to also evaluate their academics.  Publics run the gamut, traditionally.  Privates (as a generalization) tend to have top notch academics to boot.  The list goes on and on...

So... I'll express my identical interest and statement that I made before... I'd like to see the which is the best PUBLIC school.  In Ohio, Brecksville, Wadsworth, and Massillon Perry have been very very good over the past 20-25 years.  But the best in the country?  Who else is up there? 

Treep, I agree with you as I'd like to see the best public school as well. I don't know the rules for every state but I can give you a Nevada and California idea. First, if you're coming in as a freshman in high school in Nevada you can go wherever you want to start with. Also, as long as you have a bona fide change of address, you can change schools at any time. You know and I know that a bonafide change of address means something totally different to parents who are trying to finagle the system. Kids do it all the time here for football, basketball and other sports. California recently changed their rules and I think you can transfer anywhere at least once and not have to sit out a year. Yes, Public Schools do have a few more restrictions on them but at least out here there's numerous ways around them. Think of all the AAU basketball teams and how miraculously all of a sudden a player decides to change schools after a summer of playing for a coach. Then, all of a sudden, his/her parents have "moved" as well. But the kid wasn't influenced!

But, yes I would much prefer to see the best public school wrestling team like you. As far as the best public schoolgoes, I'm just asking a question here. Does everybody that wrestles/ wrestled for St. Paris Graham in Ohio live in that area and have always done so for the most part? They very well may have I'm just wondering. For instance, and I'm not disparaging the guy cuz I'm a huge fan, but didn't David Taylor move there from Montana? I'm not saying they did anything wrong. In fact, just the opposite. I think a lot of times programs that become really good kind of recruit kids themselves. If you're from California or Nevada and your son is really good at football, then if you're a smart parent and able to do so, you're going to send your kid to Bishop Gorman. It's not like they have to go out and recruit. Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to a program in the coaches but I don't see how any school, public or private, can consistently be that good with all the turn over unless there is some type of recruiting going on. Great topic.

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18 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Treep, I agree with you as I'd like to see the best public school as well. I don't know the rules for every state but I can give you a Nevada and California idea. First, if you're coming in as a freshman in high school in Nevada you can go wherever you want to start with. Also, as long as you have a bona fide change of address, you can change schools at any time. You know and I know that a bonafide change of address means something totally different to parents who are trying to finagle the system. Kids do it all the time here for football, basketball and other sports. California recently changed their rules and I think you can transfer anywhere at least once and not have to sit out a year. Yes, Public Schools do have a few more restrictions on them but at least out here there's numerous ways around them. Think of all the AAU basketball teams and how miraculously all of a sudden a player decides to change schools after a summer of playing for a coach. Then, all of a sudden, his/her parents have "moved" as well. But the kid wasn't influenced!

But, yes I would much prefer to see the best public school wrestling team like you. As far as the best public schoolgoes, I'm just asking a question here. Does everybody that wrestles/ wrestled for St. Paris Graham in Ohio live in that area and have always done so for the most part? They very well may have I'm just wondering. For instance, and I'm not disparaging the guy cuz I'm a huge fan, but didn't David Taylor move there from Montana? I'm not saying they did anything wrong. In fact, just the opposite. I think a lot of times programs that become really good kind of recruit kids themselves. If you're from California or Nevada and your son is really good at football, then if you're a smart parent and able to do so, you're going to send your kid to Bishop Gorman. It's not like they have to go out and recruit. Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to a program in the coaches but I don't see how any school, public or private, can consistently be that good with all the turn over unless there is some type of recruiting going on. Great topic.

this is awesome... 

I think the Privates that recruit... I.e. Blair... are encouraged to do so, and can do so, due to Tuition fees and what not.  

Now... in my high school (public, in Ohio), we were damn good in the 90's.  My coach definitely "recruited", but it wasn't like how the privates do it.  It was more of "wrestle for me and you can wrestled at almost any college you want" type of promise.  And... quite frankly, he pulled a few from around the state.  It wasn't traditional recruiting though... it was more of the coach being a "known commodity" in the wrestling world, and then the kid saying... wait... it's "ok" academically, it's top notch in wrestling, and the cost of living in that area is pretty low... and the parent saying... sure... my job allows me to do this/make this move... let's do it.  

I wasn't recruited by this coach... instead, I "grew up" in and was a product of his homegrown "farm system". He introduced the youth wrestling concept there, and the rest was history (started in 3rd grade).  

Now... I'm middle-aged, fat, out of shape, and a super fan of the sport that I used to be a proud part of!

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33 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

this is awesome... 

I think the Privates that recruit... I.e. Blair... are encouraged to do so, and can do so, due to Tuition fees and what not.  

Now... in my high school (public, in Ohio), we were damn good in the 90's.  My coach definitely "recruited", but it wasn't like how the privates do it.  It was more of "wrestle for me and you can wrestled at almost any college you want" type of promise.  And... quite frankly, he pulled a few from around the state.  It wasn't traditional recruiting though... it was more of the coach being a "known commodity" in the wrestling world, and then the kid saying... wait... it's "ok" academically, it's top notch in wrestling, and the cost of living in that area is pretty low... and the parent saying... sure... my job allows me to do this/make this move... let's do it.  

I wasn't recruited by this coach... instead, I "grew up" in and was a product of his homegrown "farm system". He introduced the youth wrestling concept there, and the rest was history (started in 3rd grade).  

Now... I'm middle-aged, fat, out of shape, and a super fan of the sport that I used to be a proud part of!

I would agree 100% with what you're saying about how the public schools recruit versus the private. I'm a firm believer in following rules or else you get anarchy and I am not an anarchist. One thing that bothers me about the private school recruiting, above and beyond the fact that you're not supposed to, is you get a lot of kids who you are promised something, or at least say they are, or told by the coach hey you can be on a state championship team. Four years later they realize they're never going to get to play high school sports again and they spent their entire time on the bench when they could have gone to their local public school and enjoyed themself. Thankfully, I think a lot of kids are starting to see that and both the big public and private school here in Vegas that are football powers are finally not as dominant as they used to be because kids don't want to sit on the bench their entire career.

On a side note, awhile back you could comment on the articles written in the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Literally right underneath the article people could comment. They stopped it because it was an out-and-out mother **** fest. It got so bad people were threatening each other and asking to meet at public locations to fight. The anti Bishop Gorman sentiment because they won 10 straight state championships still runs high. And, no matter what your situation, if you sent your kid to Gorman or Faith Lutheran and they were playing sports then you had to have been recruited. People who have kids who went to public schools and were beaten by private schools in the playoffs literally wanted to blow the school up,lol

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10 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I would agree 100% with what you're saying about how the public schools recruit versus the private. I'm a firm believer in following rules or else you get anarchy and I am not an anarchist. One thing that bothers me about the private school recruiting, above and beyond the fact that you're not supposed to, is you get a lot of kids who you are promised something, or at least say they are, or told by the coach hey you can be on a state championship team. Four years later they realize they're never going to get to play high school sports again and they spent their entire time on the bench when they could have gone to their local public school and enjoyed themself. Thankfully, I think a lot of kids are starting to see that and both the big public and private school here in Vegas that are football powers are finally not as dominant as they used to be because kids don't want to sit on the bench their entire career.

On a side note, awhile back you could comment on the articles written in the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Literally right underneath the article people could comment. They stopped it because it was an out-and-out mother **** fest. It got so bad people were threatening each other and asking to meet at public locations to fight. The anti Bishop Gorman sentiment because they won 10 straight state championships still runs high. And, no matter what your situation, if you sent your kid to Gorman or Faith Lutheran and they were playing sports then you had to have been recruited. People who have kids who went to public schools and were beaten by private schools in the playoffs literally wanted to blow the school up,lol

When I was a kid... we knew we were going to have a rough go of it... so... our coached purposely made us face St. Eds and Walsh Jesuit (in Ohio) as much as possible.  Iron Man, Medina, Top Gun... then came the special dual he would schedule vs. St. Ed's.  We got to a point that we would actually practice together over the Christmas Break.  

The thought process, instead of wanting to blow their school up, was that we wanted to beat them.  Period.  We wanted to get better... and we knew that steel sharpens steel.

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On 1/2/2019 at 5:27 PM, treep2000 said:

this is awesome... 

I think the Privates that recruit... I.e. Blair... are encouraged to do so, and can do so, due to Tuition fees and what not.  

Now... in my high school (public, in Ohio), we were damn good in the 90's.  My coach definitely "recruited", but it wasn't like how the privates do it.  It was more of "wrestle for me and you can wrestled at almost any college you want" type of promise.  And... quite frankly, he pulled a few from around the state.  It wasn't traditional recruiting though... it was more of the coach being a "known commodity" in the wrestling world, and then the kid saying... wait... it's "ok" academically, it's top notch in wrestling, and the cost of living in that area is pretty low... and the parent saying... sure... my job allows me to do this/make this move... let's do it.  

I wasn't recruited by this coach... instead, I "grew up" in and was a product of his homegrown "farm system". He introduced the youth wrestling concept there, and the rest was history (started in 3rd grade).  

Now... I'm middle-aged, fat, out of shape, and a super fan of the sport that I used to be a proud part of!

And keep in mind Blair is also a boarding school so isn’t even really comparable to most other private schools.

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I don't even consider Blair a legit HS. They RECRUIT wrestlers from other states and offer scholarships, like a university does. And the kid would be a fool to turn them down because 1) it's a great school (far, far better than anything in Oklahoma, for sure), 2) it's a high profile wrestling school that attracts all the coaches. Really not fair to compare them to a team from, say, Perry Oklahoma. Blair makes New Jersey wrestling look a lot better than it really is.

Blair is more like a D2 or D3 college team than a HS team.

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Regarding "recruiting" by public HS coaches,  it's simply not the same as what Blair does.  It's all based on what school district you are living in. If you want to wrestle for another school, fine, all you have to do is acquire a residence in the new town. I knew a guy who moved to Sperry and won 3 or 4 state titles. If I could've wrestled for whatever coach I wanted I'd have probably wrestled for the guy at Skiatook, he had a record of proven success. My HS coach was a worse wrestler than me!

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3 hours ago, TobusRex said:

I don't even consider Blair a legit HS. They RECRUIT wrestlers from other states and offer scholarships, like a university does. And the kid would be a fool to turn them down because 1) it's a great school (far, far better than anything in Oklahoma, for sure), 2) it's a high profile wrestling school that attracts all the coaches. Really not fair to compare them to a team from, say, Perry Oklahoma. Blair makes New Jersey wrestling look a lot better than it really is.

Blair is more like a D2 or D3 college team than a HS team.

Excellent point about them being "collegiate" level already.  They're effectively ALL destined to wrestle collegiately.  Take Notre Dame College, currently ranked #3 by Intermat.  Here's their lineup (based on their match today vs. UW-Parkside), and here's Blair's "nearest equivalent":

125:  Robert Campos vs. Michael Colaiocco (126)

133:  Hunter Bray vs. Shayne Van Ness (132)

141: Jose Rodriguez (yes, the former tOSU kid) vs. Travis Mastrogiovanni (138)

149: Taylor Misuna vs. Nicholas Incontrera (152)

157: Zach Kelly vs. Dominic Mata (160)

165:  Jashon Hubbard vs. Mata (160) / Julian Ramirez (170)

174: Cornell Beachem vs. Ramirez (170)

184: Tony Vezzetti vs. Peyton Craft (182)

197: Jared Campbell vs. A.J. Ferrari (195)

HWT:  Kameron Teacher vs. Owen Trephan (220)

Who would actually win these specific matches?  I'm betting that Blair wins this hypothetical dual.

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On 1/1/2019 at 10:03 AM, fudge_tunnel said:

I’d be more interested if the topic was “Best Public High School Team Ever”....

 

On 1/2/2019 at 5:04 PM, ConnorsDad said:

 Does everybody that wrestles/ wrestled for St. Paris Graham in Ohio live in that area and have always done so for the most part? They very well may have I'm just wondering. For instance, and I'm not disparaging the guy cuz I'm a huge fan, but didn't David Taylor move there from Montana? I'm not saying they did anything wrong. In fact, just the opposite. I think a lot of times programs that become really good kind of recruit kids themselves. If you're from California or Nevada and your son is really good at football, then if you're a smart parent and able to do so, you're going to send your kid to Bishop Gorman. It's not like they have to go out and recruit. Maybe I'm not giving enough credit to a program in the coaches but I don't see how any school, public or private, can consistently be that good with all the turn over unless there is some type of recruiting going on. Great topic.

DT moved here and was attending Graham before Junior High.   There's been multiple wrestlers, some who lived in the community (while others did not) taking online classes and only attended practices.    

 

If the school has open-enrollment should be taken into consideration for "best ever" teams.


 

 

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On 1/2/2019 at 6:22 PM, treep2000 said:

When I was a kid... we knew we were going to have a rough go of it... so... our coached purposely made us face St. Eds and Walsh Jesuit (in Ohio) as much as possible.  Iron Man, Medina, Top Gun... then came the special dual he would schedule vs. St. Ed's.  We got to a point that we would actually practice together over the Christmas Break.  

The thought process, instead of wanting to blow their school up, was that we wanted to beat them.  Period.  We wanted to get better... and we knew that steel sharpens steel.

I think treep2000 has it  about right. Many of the other contributors seem to yearn for the old days and that "little engine that could" mindset. It's not the 70s, 80s or 90s any more. Most good high school wrestlers today started with the sport when they were 5 or 6 years old and are the products of local clubs, clinics, and out-of-season competition. If they have a mediocre or deficient high school coach, they are only exposed to him during their season, and even then they often go and workout with their club in their free time. These kids are all competing against other talented kids their own age and have access to similar technique and training methods. So, what's wrong with appreciating teams that excel in their results? I have a friend who got involved in triathlon and had some early success in the local races. But he quickly realized that there were regional and national competitions that attracted a more accomplished level of athlete, and he wanted to test himself at those, and not just beat all the locals. I guess it's okay to want to be just okay, but I am more interested in people and programs who want to test themselves against a higher standard.

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62,000 x 14 = 868,000

43,400 x 15 = 651,000 (adjusted for non resident discount)

Even with their extensive travel expenses, does 1,519,000 in revenue makes Blair the most profitable or highest revenue producing program when factoring in tuition, room, and board.

 

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37 minutes ago, KSchlosser said:

62,000 x 14 = 868,000

43,400 x 15 = 651,000 (adjusted for non resident discount)

Even with their extensive travel expenses, does 1,519,000 in revenue makes Blair the most profitable or highest revenue producing program when factoring in tuition, room, and board.

 

According to the most recent list of most expensive boarding schools, there are 8 more expensive than Blair that also have wrestling programs; but I do not see what that has to do with the quality of their wrestling programs.

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1 hour ago, 1032004 said:

Are most of the kids/families paying tuition (or at least the majority of it) there?

i'm assuming you mean wrestlers... and the answer is no...

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:06 AM, TobusRex said:

Really not fair to compare them to a team from, say, Perry Oklahoma. Blair makes New Jersey wrestling look a lot better than it really is.

How inaccurate and uninformed.  To the contrary, Blair makes an upper echelon state (NJ) even better. Every year, many of Blair’s natiosnally ranked kids are from NJ. This year, they have 3 N.J. kids ranked in top 3 (Mastrogiovanni, Coliaco and Van Ness).  NJ is always near the top in producing college all Americans. In 2015,  NJ had 8 AA, 1 from Blair;Ok had 1.  In 2016, NJ had 6 Aa, 1 from Blair;oK had 2. In 2017, NJ had 5 AA, none from Blair; 4from OK and last year, NJ had 8 AA, 2 from Blair; OK had 4. In fact, most years, Blair is made up of a solid number of N.J. kids and NJ public schools are super tough. It’s so inaccurate to think N J would not be a top 4 in country without Blair. If anything, NJ is top 4 in country and that doesn’t even count the Blair kids who are from N.J.!!!!!!

Edited by Wrestlingbcpc

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