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hammerlockthree

Iowa looks horrible

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1)Riddled with injuries despite a weak schedule.

2) Marinelli almost got beat by a kid from Brown, and I have tremendous respect for brown wrestlers, its just that they aren't supposed to beat the flag carriers at Iowa. 

3) Lee holds true to his pattern of faltering hard if his momentum gets stopped. Someone is gonna find a strategy that beats this behavior.

4) Warner and Cassiopi took loses, which is ok, but IMHO they didn't compete very hard, which is kinda astonishing. 

It doesn't seem like whatever coaching strategy is in place is bearing any fruit at all....am I off? Missing some crucial detail?

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Did I watch a different tournament?

Lee was the 1 seed and lost to the #2. It was a surprise due to how dominant he has been, but Rivera has looked legit this year. 

DeSanto was the 2 seed and dominated. Granted the 1 seed went down to injury.

Murin was the 2 seed and took 2nd losing a close one to the 1 seed and top 10 ranked Alber. 

lugo was the 4 seed and took 4th losing to the 1 seed, top ranked Kolodzik and in OT to a very tough Sasso.

Young was the 2 seed and dominated up to the Finals and wrestled vet competitively with Deakin, who has looked exceptionally good.  

Marinelli was the 2 seed and won it all beating a kid that thrashed him at NCAA's last year.  

Bowman wrestled his 1st tourney down at 174 and they are lucky to be able to fill the weight with him considering they lost Kemerer.  

Wilcke was the 2 seed and lost a tight one being quite active against a strong, rubber kneed Foster.  

Warner is the only real flub, but we don't know all the particulars behind why he has barely wrestled this season. 

Stoll didn't lose and we all should have known he would FF out.  Iowa has finally shown they know March is all that really matters and getting him there as healthy as possible is all that matters.

Hard to see how that is anything other than a solid performance  

 

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

MSU, where do you see Iowa finishing at NCAA's this year? Still have them finishing 2nd? 

So far, yes. I just don't see tOSU scoring enough at 133,141,149,184 and 197 to make up for what I see at 125,157,165,174 and 285. 

OkState could move up if Joe Smith proves to be as good as he looked in limited action at 174. Still, if Weigel doesn't come back, I am not sure they can score enough either since Brock is too small at 141, I don't see points at 157 and am not sure Jacobe can do much at 184. 

 

I would now have Iowa much further behind PSU than I did preseason, but Michigan didn't show enough this weekend to warrant consideration and I just don't think tOSU and OkState are deep enough with their current configurations. 

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Did I watch a different tournament?
Lee was the 1 seed and lost to the #2. It was a surprise due to how dominant he has been, but Rivera has looked legit this year. 
DeSanto was the 2 seed and dominated. Granted the 1 seed went down to injury.
Murin was the 2 seed and took 2nd losing a close one to the 1 seed and top 10 ranked Alber. 
lugo was the 4 seed and took 4th losing to the 1 seed, top ranked Kolodzik and in OT to a very tough Sasso.
Young was the 2 seed and dominated up to the Finals and wrestled vet competitively with Deakin, who has looked exceptionally good.  
Marinelli was the 2 seed and won it all beating a kid that thrashed him at NCAA's last year.  
Bowman wrestled his 1st tourney down at 174 and they are lucky to be able to fill the weight with him considering they lost Kemerer.  
Wilcke was the 2 seed and lost a tight one being quite active against a strong, rubber kneed Foster.  
Warner is the only real flub, but we don't know all the particulars behind why he has barely wrestled this season. 
Stoll didn't lose and we all should have known he would FF out.  Iowa has finally shown they know March is all that really matters and getting him there as healthy as possible is all that matters.
Hard to see how that is anything other than a solid performance  
 



Are you out of your mind tonight?

Lee lost..this isn’t a normal #1 seed this is your NCAA champ. If Nolf gets dominated at Scuffle, I’m pissed no matter what else happens.

Desanto looked good against guys he should beat

Murin? Couldn’t get a take down against Alber? You’re looking for AA from Murin and Alber is a low AA/bloodround type

Lugo? What’s he have 4 or 5 loses this year? 4th year wrestler losing to a freshman? You expecting AA out of him?

Young..a pleasant surprise but still doubt he AAs..But who knows

Maranelli...good for him he avenged a loss.

Bowman..next

Wilke? Cmon man..he’ll be lucky to get to Bloodround. Has no offense

Warner? Horrible tourney, I can take a bad tourney but the kid quit in the match vs Sloan..that’s not AA mentality. Please don’t bring up Miklus..he broken down shell of himself

Stoll? Won’t wrestle anyone good and when we do see him against bad guys he looks just as bad

So keep pumping yourself up. Reality is you have 2 AA’s (Lee and Bull)and your best shot is a 6th place finish with Young.

If you think 1 champ with two other AAs takes 2nd then I don’t know what to tell you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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35 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

So far, yes. I just don't see tOSU scoring enough at 133,141,149,184 and 197 to make up for what I see at 125,157,165,174 and 285. 

OkState could move up if Joe Smith proves to be as good as he looked in limited action at 174. Still, if Weigel doesn't come back, I am not sure they can score enough either since Brock is too small at 141, I don't see points at 157 and am not sure Jacobe can do much at 184. 

 

I would now have Iowa much further behind PSU than I did preseason, but Michigan didn't show enough this weekend to warrant consideration and I just don't think tOSU and OkState are deep enough with their current configurations. 

OSU's returning AAs are Picc, Brock, Lewallen, Joe Smith, Rodgers, Jacobe Smith, and Weigel.  

Weigel is out for the year.  Lewallen has been out over a month and isn't back for the scuffle.  Nobody has any idea what weight Smith and Smith will be at.  Picc didn't AA last year.  Brock was declining at 133 and looks much worse at 141.  As stated there is no 157.  The wheels are coming off in midseason instead of late season for OSU.  Until they get a RTC they will not compete for a title.  Smith does a great job of creating AAs and near AAs in empty weights, but they haven't had a real stud since Dieringer and they've had 2 the last decade (oliver being the other).  The arms race has completely left them behind.  They are better at turning fringe kids like Lewallen/Weigel/White into AAs then they are at turning elite kids into multi-champs (struck out on lots of top 10 recruits).  

Their only chance is Fix drags the whole program (including FS) into the modern era.

Iowa is clearly ahead of them right now.

Edited by boconnell

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Just now, boconnell said:

OSU's returning AAs are Picc, Brock, Lewallen, Joe Smith, Rodgers, Jacobe Smith, and Weigel.  

Weigel is out for the year.  Lewallen has been out over a month and isn't back for the scuffle.  Nobody has any idea what weight Smith and Smith will be at.  Picc didn't AA last year.  Brock was declining at 133 and looks much worse at 141.  As stated there is no 157.  The wheels are coming off in midseason instead of late season for OSU.  Until they get a RTC they will not compete for a title.  Smith does a great job of creating AAs and near AAs in empty weights, but they haven't had a real stud since Dieringer and they've had 2 the last decade (oliver being the other).  The arms race has completely left them behind.  They are better at turning fringe kids like Lewallen/Weigel/White into AAs then they are at turning elite kids into multi-champs (struck out on lots of top 10 recruits).  

Their only chance is Fix drags the whole program (including FS) into the modern era.

It's been announced that Joe Smith will go 174 and Jacobe Smith 184

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Flo has Ohio St 2nd at 87.5 team points and Iowa 3rd at 76 team points, and this is with Spencer Lee at #1 and Warnerov at #4. The gap will widen somewhat as those two drop in the rankings. Lee will only drop 1 spot probably, but Warnerov will plummet. Lugo will also drop a couple spots. 

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1 hour ago, TBar1977 said:

Flo has Ohio St 2nd at 87.5 team points and Iowa 3rd at 76 team points, and this is with Spencer Lee at #1 and Warnerov at #4. The gap will widen somewhat as those two drop in the rankings. Lee will only drop 1 spot probably, but Warnerov will plummet. Lugo will also drop a couple spots. 

Warner probably only goes from 4 to 5 because of his win over Miklus.  Only Caywood will move ahead of him.  This weight class really drops off after top 3.  It doesn’t help that Weigel, Darmstadt and Connel are out for the year.

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10 hours ago, pish6969 said:

 

 


Are you out of your mind tonight?

Lee lost..this isn’t a normal #1 seed this is your NCAA champ. If Nolf gets dominated at Scuffle, I’m pissed no matter what else happens.

Desanto looked good against guys he should beat

Murin? Couldn’t get a take down against Alber? You’re looking for AA from Murin and Alber is a low AA/bloodround type

Lugo? What’s he have 4 or 5 loses this year? 4th year wrestler losing to a freshman? You expecting AA out of him?

Young..a pleasant surprise but still doubt he AAs..But who knows

Maranelli...good for him he avenged a loss.

Bowman..next

Wilke? Cmon man..he’ll be lucky to get to Bloodround. Has no offense

Warner? Horrible tourney, I can take a bad tourney but the kid quit in the match vs Sloan..that’s not AA mentality. Please don’t bring up Miklus..he broken down shell of himself

Stoll? Won’t wrestle anyone good and when we do see him against bad guys he looks just as bad

So keep pumping yourself up. Reality is you have 2 AA’s (Lee and Bull)and your best shot is a 6th place finish with Young.

If you think 1 champ with two other AAs takes 2nd then I don’t know what to tell you


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

I agree here regarding Lee. It’s not correct to say Lee was one and last to two, it happens all the time. This was a major upset and though I think Rivera is tremendous, I’m still of the belief that Lee wasn’t Lee. 

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It is amazing how the Iowa hate for some can so ridiculously cloud reason and the ability to recognize context.

 

My response was DIRECTLY to the OP saying Iowa looks "HORRIBLE".  Do you guys not know what the word means?  Horrible-extremely bad.....

Iowa just won what looks to be the 2nd hardest regular season tournament by scoring 184 pts winning by 64.5.  Their starters took 2nd,1st,2nd,4th,2nd,1st,DNP(only starting due to injury),2nd,5th and FF to protect from further injury.  Horrible?  Extremely bad?

Now, I even prefaced my initial response by saying they will in now way challenge PSU.  But, everyone else, of course.  Hell only tOSU and OkState really have enough firepower to get over 90 and Iowa WILL get there.  OkState looks like a hot mess with the disorganization at multiple weights and tOSU literally looks like 1/2 a team.  Granted, their power half is super tough, but they will have nearly no margin for error to get to that 90 by themselves needing to average 18 to get to 90.

With that said, how and who looked "horrible" this tournament?

125:  Lee-  He took 2nd to the 2nd best and undefeated guy.  Yes, it was a major shock.  In no way did I think it would happen.  But, horrible?  Based on that do you really think he doesn't still score 20+ at NCAA's?

133: DeSanto-He LITERALLY did everything he could to look awesome.  The literal opposite of horrible.  Yet, the argument uses guys that weren't even there to twist that?  He looked great regardless of how deep 133 is as a whole.

141:  Murin-He performed exactly like he was expected to going into the tournament.  2nd seed, took 2nd and lost a very close match to a top 10 guy.  Going into the match he was ranked 20th.  How exactly was that performance horrible?

149:  Lugo-Seeded 4th and took 4th.  His season has been admittedly rough.  But, he literally destroyed everyone he wrested except the clear #1 at the weight(losing 7-4) and lost a rather inconsequential OT match to a redshirting Sasso.  How exactly was that horrible?

157:  Young-Noone outside of the most ardent Iowa fans have been high on him.  So far he is 11-1 and pounded everyone until losing a solid match against an extremely dominant Deakin.  Horrible?  How exactly???

165:  Marinelli-The guy was probably the MVP of the tournament.  He won the hardest weight by far, rather convincingly.  Horrible?

174:  Bowman-He went 2-2 in his first competition since cutting to 174. He lost 6-4 to the guy that took 5th and 10-7 to the guy that took 4th.  For a back up 184 cutting to 174, that his horrible?

184:  Wilcke-He convincingly made the finals as the 2 seed and lost 3-2 against a strong AA in Foster.  He was actually quite offensive and simply couldn't finish on Foster's rubber knee.  That is horrible?

197:  Warner-Taking 5th, THE WAY HE DID, is the only performance that could warrant the use of the "h" word.  Still, we don't know what is going on with him.  If it is mental, then Iowa is in trouble here.  If it is injury(ies), they still have months to right the ship.

285:  Stoll-He did what many expected.  He won a couple and then FF'd out.  You can not like that fact, but it in no way equates to a horrible performance.

 

So, by ANY measurable statistic, in NO WAY did the Iowa team look horrible and only ONE guy out of 10 starters could remotely fit that description.  Sheesh guys.................

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12 hours ago, TBar1977 said:

Myles should win. Moore 2nd. Micah top 3 or 4. Pletcher top 5 or 6. McKenna 1rst to 3rd. Iowa should be able to beat that, but I wasn't impressed at Midlands.

When you are used to PSU, it is rightfully hard for another team to impress you.  But, remember, the argument isn't about performing like PSU.  It is about performing better than the other 73 DI teams.

After Midlands, this is what I would guess on Iowa's scoring at NCAA's:  

125: 25

133: 10

141: 5

149: 4

157: 8

165: 20

174: .5

184: 6

197: 3-This is the 1 spot that could really move up if Warner rights the ship.

285: 15-Saying he looked bad is hilarious.  He is 3-0 and has been super conservative.  He didn't really turn it on until NCAA's last year and expect it again with this being his last shot.

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7 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Maybe the OP tuned in for the finals and thought “Iowa looks horrible” without appreciating the tournament expectations as a whole?

Even if that were the case, who looked horrible in the finals?  DeSanto and Marinelli sure didn't.  Young staying competitive with Deakin wouldn't fit that bill to ANYONE that has even the slightest DI knowledge.  Lee, horrible?  That word belongs nowhere near him.  Way less than expected?  Sure.  But, that is only because expectations are ridiculously high.  

Murin and Wilcke both lost very close matches to much higher ranked guys with superb defense(especially Foster).  Their stock most definitely did NOT go down after those matches..........

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