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klehner

Nobody cares about Eierman vs Yianni?

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21 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

Everything with track is a money grab....if they weren't a bunch of lazy creeps they could build their viewership.

I'd be happy to pay $150/year if that allowed me to view all of their live streams and content. The PPV model is a hindrance to me-especially at $20 an event like the South Beach duals. 

When considering value, you get way more for less with flo. I think track is missing where culture is...Netflix would be non-existent if they made you pay $1 to watch a show at a time.

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If I were guessing the college and international tournament market probably isn't a huge part if their base.  Virtually every single high school tournament and many your tournaments are using their systems.  That means all the parents and grandparents across the country that can't travel to their kids competitions can watch there kid on track.  There are probably more high school tournaments across the country in weekend then the entire D1 season combined.  At least close to it.  I would imagine that those parents will pay 12-15 bucks a tournament.  I do wish they had a college package you could buy and an international package, it combo.  Nevertheless I would bet their big money market is at the non-college levels.  

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44 minutes ago, scramble said:

If I were guessing the college and international tournament market probably isn't a huge part if their base.  Virtually every single high school tournament and many your tournaments are using their systems.  That means all the parents and grandparents across the country that can't travel to their kids competitions can watch there kid on track.  There are probably more high school tournaments across the country in weekend then the entire D1 season combined.  At least close to it.  I would imagine that those parents will pay 12-15 bucks a tournament.  I do wish they had a college package you could buy and an international package, it combo.  Nevertheless I would bet their big money market is at the non-college levels.  

I agree that high school is their main product, but very few high school tournaments live stream their matches.

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Different market. we’ve been over this - Track’s PPV option is designed to make their tournaments money. At the Virginia Duals, which is a fundraiser, it gives us the option to set a price for the event and directly financially benefit from the event. When we used Flo, they did a fine job, but they set a rights fee and paid us x-amount, no matter how many viewers we had. With a one-off event like the VA Duals, we capitalized on the teams watching who couldn’t make it - many of them watching the HS side who don’t care about the college side of the sport. The more people watch, the better our tournament does and the better our kids get funded for the club. There’s a risk, but the last few years, our club has benefitted from a PPV vs a generic fee.

Track provided single events the opportunity to capitalize on direct viewership vs a style of revenue share. It’s not designed to be the same.

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34 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

Different market. we’ve been over this - Track’s PPV option is designed to make their tournaments money. At the Virginia Duals, which is a fundraiser, it gives us the option to set a price for the event and directly financially benefit from the event. When we used Flo, they did a fine job, but they set a rights fee and paid us x-amount, no matter how many viewers we had. With a one-off event like the VA Duals, we capitalized on the teams watching who couldn’t make it - many of them watching the HS side who don’t care about the college side of the sport. The more people watch, the better our tournament does and the better our kids get funded for the club. There’s a risk, but the last few years, our club has benefitted from a PPV vs a generic fee.

Track provided single events the opportunity to capitalize on direct viewership vs a style of revenue share. It’s not designed to be the same.

Sure and that is their right, but any event that chooses to go down this path will not make money from many people who aren’t directly involved (parents, friends, etc). 

Everyone on this forum watches way too much wrestling. I average probably 10 hours a week during the season. If so few of us paid to watch that there wasn’t even a thread discussing some really compelling duals (I’m a big nc state fan and love Missouri and Cornell too) then I can’t imagine they sold all that many. 

Maybe track should consider a subscription for D1 events ($100/year?) and still do the ppv model for the rest. 

I could be way off here. There is a lot that would go into that decision that I don’t have access to (sales numbers, event breakdowns, contracts, rev share deals, costs to implement, costs to maintain, etc) but on the surface this seems to make sense. 

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58 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

Different market. we’ve been over this - Track’s PPV option is designed to make their tournaments money. At the Virginia Duals, which is a fundraiser, it gives us the option to set a price for the event and directly financially benefit from the event. When we used Flo, they did a fine job, but they set a rights fee and paid us x-amount, no matter how many viewers we had. With a one-off event like the VA Duals, we capitalized on the teams watching who couldn’t make it - many of them watching the HS side who don’t care about the college side of the sport. The more people watch, the better our tournament does and the better our kids get funded for the club. There’s a risk, but the last few years, our club has benefitted from a PPV vs a generic fee.

Track provided single events the opportunity to capitalize on direct viewership vs a style of revenue share. It’s not designed to be the same.

How about when Track used to do Fargo, and every year the larger brackets would overlap with the consolation brackets and become completely illegible, what was that designed to do. 

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21 minutes ago, hammerlockthree said:

How about when Track used to do Fargo, and every year the larger brackets would overlap with the consolation brackets and become completely illegible, what was that designed to do. 

I dont know about the various pay schemes, etc. that Jason refers to but it would be nice if they had some type of yearly fee. But that may not be possible. The one thing I do know, beyond a doubt, is that when running a tournament, track is INFINITELY  better than Floarena. With a son who has wrestled in about 150 track events plus purchasing numerous other high school events for scouting, college and international events for entertainment and others just for the hell of it, I wish every tourney used tracks tournament platform. In fact, I've had way fewer streaming issues with them than flo. I like the fact that flo has announcers more often and the price is better but the track platform gives you so many options for reports and results that are not available on Flo and for whatever reason flo loads incredibly slowly. And I just calculated I have spent almost $3,000 in the last 7 years on events on both. And this is true whether using a desktop, laptop, tablet or phone.

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17 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

I dont know about the various pay schemes, etc. that Jason refers to but it would be nice if they had some type of yearly fee. But that may not be possible. The one thing I do know, beyond a doubt, is that when running a tournament, track is INFINITELY  better than Floarena. With a son who has wrestled in about 150 track events plus purchasing numerous other high school events for scouting, college and international events for entertainment and others just for the hell of it, I wish every tourney used tracks tournament platform. In fact, I've had way fewer streaming issues with them than flo. I like the fact that flo has announcers more often and the price is better but the track platform gives you so many options for reports and results that are not available on Flo and for whatever reason flo loads incredibly slowly. And I just calculated I have spent almost $3,000 in the last 7 years on events on both. And this is true whether using a desktop, laptop, tablet or phone.

Track's system isnt bad, but pa-wrestling.com has by far the best tournament tracking system out there especially when trying to jump between weight classes or follow specific teams. It's not even close how user friendly it is. Their live tournament system for PA states is amazing.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Track's system isnt bad, but pa-wrestling.com has by far the best tournament tracking system out there especially when trying to jump between weight classes or follow specific teams. It's not even close how user friendly it is. Their live tournament system for PA states is amazing.

I know Gimp used to run the PIAA championships, from Sectionals through States. Not sure if he had anything to w setting up the site you reference, but it would not surprise me if he did.


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How did the Yanni-Eierman match actually go?  What was the scoring like?  

One might have reasonably guessed for a high scoring affair with two great scramblers and innovators, but 3-1 sounds like a relative slow motion or tactical bout.

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1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

Sure and that is their right, but any event that chooses to go down this path will not make money from many people who aren’t directly involved (parents, friends, etc). 

Everyone on this forum watches way too much wrestling. I average probably 10 hours a week during the season. If so few of us paid to watch that there wasn’t even a thread discussing some really compelling duals (I’m a big nc state fan and love Missouri and Cornell too) then I can’t imagine they sold all that many. 

Maybe track should consider a subscription for D1 events ($100/year?) and still do the ppv model for the rest. 

I could be way off here. There is a lot that would go into that decision that I don’t have access to (sales numbers, event breakdowns, contracts, rev share deals, costs to implement, costs to maintain, etc) but on the surface this seems to make sense. 

I think there should be some type of middle ground, but to be honest, Track is just a way for tournament directors to manage their tournament. Having run a ton of tournaments on my own, my first responsibility as a tournament director is to the competitors and the coaches and fans who attend the tournament. Then when their needs are taken care of, I care about those who can't make it with at the very minimum, updated brackets. Then you look to see if you can do live scoring, then you look to see if you can stream. That's the chain. Having lost money on streaming events in the past, Flo and Track offer similar systems and different systems, depending on how you look at it. If I'm a tournament director in a small town in my native Virginia where I know the national wrestling fan flock on this board isn't going to watch, I have to figure out if most of the parents interested in watching have a Flo sub or will they just pay the one-off for the PPV. For most tournaments, a one-off makes more sense. We've had Flo and TW at the VA Duals with great results from both, but we're a one-event wrestling club and for us, it made more sense to go with the PPV option. From that standpoint, Flo's initial sign up is $150, even though it's broken down to $12.50 a month, it's still billed yearly. Grandma and Grandpa are going to have a hard time making that purchase at $50 a dual (if you're guaranteed 3 duals) vs. spending $16.95, at just over $5 for dual one time. 

I realize this has hijacked the conversation and I do think TW should offer some type of "junkie" pass, because there's no way humanly possible any person can watch everything either Flo or Track streams. I'm still wondering how would a yearly pass on TW benefit the one-off events? Hey, there's a drive-by viewership of 50 people on your event, here's a quarter. If you're a college tournament (mostly), I'd probably think Flo is a really good option. If you've got high schools from around the country who aren't exactly going to get the eyeballs kids at the Ironman gets, then tournament directors are using TW. Both systems have their quirks and aren't perfect, but they exist to give the tournament organizers the flexibility they need. We weren't unhappy with Flo when they streamed the VA Duals for three years, but financially, it made more sense for us to go with a PPV option where revenue was directly related to actual people viewing. 

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42 minutes ago, lu_alum said:

I know Gimp used to run the PIAA championships, from Sectionals through States. Not sure if he had anything to w setting up the site you reference, but it would not surprise me if he did.

I don't/didn't have anything to do with pa-wrestling.com.

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15 minutes ago, dmm53 said:

How did the Yanni-Eierman match actually go?  What was the scoring like?  

One might have reasonably guessed for a high scoring affair with two great scramblers and innovators, but 3-1 sounds like a relative slow motion or tactical bout.

yianni-score.jpg.7cf46b220893c4cf1d64b1e210bbb4d0.jpg

I didn't watch the match, but the description was that Eierman never shot from neutral.

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13 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

I realize this has hijacked the conversation...…

Hijacking is one of the unwritten internet rules so as long as you're not throwing old men in wheelchairs into the Mediterranean Sea, hijack away. 

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3 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Track's system isnt bad, but pa-wrestling.com has by far the best tournament tracking system out there especially when trying to jump between weight classes or follow specific teams. It's not even close how user friendly it is. Their live tournament system for PA states is amazing.

I would be interested to see that. I have never seen a tourney with it.

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I care. Enough to fly out there to see it, actually.

I took notes of the match, since I follow both of these guys pretty closely.

Period 1:

First minute is what you'd expect from two guys with their history of trading matches: caution. Very little from either but Yianni did control the center of the mat more and had the only legit TD attempt close to the minute mark: an elbow slideby attempt which Eierman was ready for.

Last two minutes of the first were uneventful but Yianni asserted himself more as the aggressor, generally controlling the center of the mat and the tie-ups. He also took the only significant shot of the period but Eierman's head-hands are too tough when he's first-period fresh.

Period 2:

Y chooses down and E immediately sticks in the right leg. Spends about a minute on the crossbody ride breaking Y's tripod down. Very similar situation to last year's second period at this same event, when Y was down. But this year Y had more strength to take the tripod to standing position a few times. After about minute of riding time, Y stood up and when E draped over him to attempt a mat return, Y tried a sweet looking arm throw to his right. Ultimately, it was not successful as a throw but it did shake E loose and Y got the escape after giving up 1:15 of RT.

After a restart from going OOB, Y immediately starts pressuring forward, forcing E to either shoot or back up. E backs up and circles, faking a few shots, setting up Y's patented misdirection single. Y fakes left (slaps the leg) and immediately slides right to a single. Eierman sprawls but Y is already in deep and in position and secures the left leg to lock up a double but is halfway out of bounds and E smartly hips out of bounds, leaving Y with a low single to try to pull back in to the mat before the period ends.

Period 3:

E chooses down and has to escape in 15 seconds to secure his RT but fails to do so. Y used a claw and two solid mat returns to keep E down, but E is very active from bottom and got out fairly quickly. Alas, only 56 sec of RT. Now they're neutral where Y has been the aggressor the whole match and E looks tired to me, not moving as well.

Y looks fresh and keeps pressuring forward. E fakes a few times but Y doesn't flinch and keeps pressuring. Y hits a low double that converts on the edge with 25 seconds left. 

Fresh start after going OOB. E shows urgency and gets up twice but Y responds with two athletic mat returns, the first one being Dake-like but with a very solid counter attempt from E who pivoted his hips midair and tried to land on Y after the back arch, drawing oohs and aahs, but no dice. 

 

Key Takeaways:

1. To me, Yianni looked significantly stronger/bigger than last year. Eierman clearly had the strength advantage last year and that is now gone. Look at last year's match at the SB Duals and then this year's. The main difference from bottom is that Y is now a man.

2. Y controlled all the action from the feet. He controlled the center of the match for 90% of the time they were in neutral and took the only meaningful risks, showing good variety with a throwby attempt, his patented misdirection single attempt (which he was in a decent spot to get had time not run out in the 2nd), and the low double that was money in the third.

3. Eierman is still dangerous as hell and usually only one move away from stealing any match. He will be very hard for anyone to keep down for long unless he unexpectedly starts struggling with the weight cut and loses steam by the third.

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15 hours ago, ConnorsDad said:

I would be interested to see that. I have never seen a tourney with it.

Just in case you misunderstood, pa-wrestling.com's system doesn't actually run the event. They track the event based on seeing results from now Flo (formerly escapesports).

I can't remember exactly what happened but I recall something at the start of the states where they (unless it was somebody else) had the brackets wrong. I think they mis-anticipated the seeding formula. Might not have been all weights but I do remember saying something to the PIAA.

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59 minutes ago, gimpeltf said:

Just in case you misunderstood, pa-wrestling.com's system doesn't actually run the event. They track the event based on seeing results from now Flo (formerly escapesports).

I can't remember exactly what happened but I recall something at the start of the states where they (unless it was somebody else) had the brackets wrong. I think they mis-anticipated the seeding formula. Might not have been all weights but I do remember saying something to the PIAA.

Yes, I did misunderstand so thank you for the clarification.

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