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Jimmy Cinnabon

Could Suriano take out Spencer Lee this year?

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10 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

What's really amazing to me is that it's so difficult for some people to accept that maybe, just maybe Rivera and Glory have both improved to the point where either has caught up to Lee as if that's an insult on Lee.

Imo saying stuff like "No disrespect to Rivera" or °Not taking anything away from Rivera's, but Lee was sick" actually is disrespectful to him and is taking away from him win. To me it's not all that different when people say stuff like  "Sorry, but not sorry." Its more like... "not making any excuses for Lee, but I actually am making excuses for Lee."

 

Its like some fans saying "Rivera didn't stall, but he backed up the whole match". Well, if he backed up the whole match then he did stall, so which is it? 

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I just have a feeling that if one of the Penn State heavy favorites were to lose, none of their fans would be suggesting other wrestlers would be "catching up". They would be looking for reasons why they lost. If Nolf were to go down, would any of you honestly believe that he was 100% healthy? That being said, if something is wrong with Lee, well thats part of the sport. We will atleast have a good idea soon, if he completely turns this result around. That being said, back to the original post, I'd pick Lee if Suriano cut down, I'm not too sure 125 is his optimal weight.

Edited by Molsen

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A few thoughts after watching the video.  I didn't get to see it live.  

- Rivera looked much bigger than Lee.  Not sure when they weighed in.

- Lee's toughest match-up's are athletic guys.  Rivera, Bresser, Fix etc...are all more naturally athletic than Lee.   He will need to change his strategy against these types.  

- Lee will most likely rebound and be at peak performance in March.  Lee is one of those wrestlers who will probably have 5-7 losses in his career, but may also be a 4 timer.  

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2 hours ago, Molsen said:

I just have a feeling that if one of the Penn State heavy favorites were to lose, none of their fans would be suggesting other wrestlers would be "catching up". They would be looking for reasons why they lost. If Nolf were to go down, would any of you honestly believe that he was 100% healthy? That being said, if something is wrong with Lee, well thats part of the sport. We will atleast have a good idea soon, if he completely turns this result around. That being said, back to the original post, I'd pick Lee if Suriano cut down, I'm not too sure 125 is his optimal weight.

 

As a matter of fact, for instance, last year when Nolf lost to Van Brill from Rutgers almost all of us said it was because he wasn't 100% healthy. We are guilty of exactly what you claim here. We even went a step further and identified the true reason for his loss, at least in our jaded minds, being an injury to his knee. You have us all pegged. 

Edited by TBar1977

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2 hours ago, Molsen said:

I just have a feeling that if one of the Penn State heavy favorites were to lose, none of their fans would be suggesting other wrestlers would be "catching up". They would be looking for reasons why they lost. If Nolf were to go down, would any of you honestly believe that he was 100% healthy? That being said, if something is wrong with Lee, well thats part of the sport. We will atleast have a good idea soon, if he completely turns this result around. That being said, back to the original post, I'd pick Lee if Suriano cut down, I'm not too sure 125 is his optimal weight.

When Myles Martin beat Nickal either time I dont think anyone claimed Nickal was sick.

When Gabe Dean beat Ruth I dont think anyone claimed Ruth was sick.

Everyone felt that Martin and Dean both caught up.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

When Myles Martin beat Nickal either time I dont think anyone claimed Nickal was sick.

When Gabe Dean beat Ruth I dont think anyone claimed Ruth was sick.

Everyone felt that Martin and Dean both caught up.

There is little doubt that Dean was sick during the NCAAs-- jut look at the circles under his eyes and consider his lack of energy. Dean himself never offered that excuse.

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6 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Didnt really hear much of that from the Cornell section..

Others on the Cornell board did say he was sick. But I am basing it on my direct observation of him on and off the mat.

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8 minutes ago, NJDan said:

Others on the Cornell board did say he was sick. But I am basing it on my direct observation of him on and off the mat.

Yes, I also heard similar but no where near the extent of what we see with Spencer. With Dean a small group speculated this, with Spencer it's being said as an absolute. That's my point.

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1 hour ago, BigTenFanboy said:

When Myles Martin beat Nickal either time I dont think anyone claimed Nickal was sick.

When Gabe Dean beat Ruth I dont think anyone claimed Ruth was sick.

Everyone felt that Martin and Dean both caught up.

Just the nature of how Martin won the first time, left people having Nickal as the favorite. But they felt with Nickals style Martin had a chance. That was two freshmen, a little different then Lee who was dominant after the brace came off. Nickal wasnt an NCAA champ at the time either. And I could be mistaken, but I dont think many people really thought Dean had caught up to ruth, which based off of Ruth's accomplishments that was well deserved.

Edited by Molsen

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8 minutes ago, Molsen said:

 

Just the nature of how Martin won the first time, left people having Nickal as the favorite. But they felt with Nickals style Martin had a chance. That was two freshmen, a little different then Lee who was dominant after the brace came off. Nickal wasnt an NCAA champ at the time either. And I could be mistaken, but I dont think many people really thought Dean had caught up to ruth, which based off of Ruth's accomplishments that was well deserved.

Dean was given much more well deserved respect than Rivera is being given now. Bottom line.

Dean was a freshman who beat a 2x returning NCAA Champ who hadnt lost a match since his freshman year.

Rivera is a junior returning AA who beat a 1x returning NCAA Champ. Which one is a bigger upset?

The "he was sick/injured" response for Ruth was nowhere near that Spencer is getting. The orignal claim was that PSU fans would be doing the same if one of their studs lost. Clearly that is not the case.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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8 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Dean was given much more well deserved respect than Rivera is being given now. Bottom line.

Dean was a freshman who beat a 2x returning NCAA Champ who hadnt lost a match since his freshman year.

Rivera is a junior returning AA who beat a 1x returning NCAA Champ. Which one is a bigger upset?

The "he was sick/injured" response for Ruth was nowhere near that Spencer is getting. The orignal claim was that PSU fans would be doing the same if one of their studs lost. Clearly that is not the case.

Not to be "that guy", but Rivera is soph.

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The easiest thing to do is sit and wait. When Retheford bear Stieber his frosh year no one knew exactly what it meant. Now we know. If Rivera is going to be an elite he will prove it on the mat and over time. If Lee was sick or diminished one way we will see it. 

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3 hours ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Yes, I also heard similar but no where near the extent of what we see with Spencer. With Dean a small group speculated this, with Spencer it's being said as an absolute. That's my point.

I’m sorry, but it’s hard to take you at all seriously when you have such obvious vitriol and hate toward Iowa in general, and now apparently you’ve even gone a step further and made it personal against Lee, attacking people who actually WATCHED the matches (many of them not even Iowa fans), and can see that Lee was just a shell,of himself physically.  No one is fooled by you - we get that you loathe Iowa and Lee.

Edited by DEFan79

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20 minutes ago, DEFan79 said:

I’m sorry, but it’s hard to take you at all seriously when you have such obvious vitriol and hate toward Iowa in general, and now apparently you’ve even gone a step further and made it personal against Lee, attacking people who actually WATCHED the matches (many of them not even Iowa fans), and can see that Lee was just a shell,of himself physically.  No one is fooled by you - we get that you loathe Iowa and Lee.

False. I don't hate Iowa. Not a fan of Tom. Actually like Terry. Liked Cory Clark, don't like Gilman. Like Metcalf, like Sammy Brooks. I like Spencer just fine. I just hate stupid fans who make excuses for the kid.

 

And tell me exactly where I personally attacked Spencer Lee?

FYI I've watched pretty much every televised match Spencer Lee has wrestled since he was in the 8th grade and many in person. The only loss he's had that doesn't get equated to him being sick or injured was his loss to NATO at Big tens last year.

 

The fact that you say that Lee having the flu a month ago is more severe than Surianos hospital stay shows you're just in love with the kid. You lost all legitimacy when you said that.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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