Jump to content
TBar1977

The Southern Scuffle Thread

Recommended Posts

I think what is hurting the Scuffle is how many teams are starting to be more "aware" for lack of a better word of seed implications. For the Big Ten schools, to go to Cliff Keen and the Scuffle you potentially run in to seeing some guys 4-5 times in a season. If you are a Nolf or Nickal this probably doesn't bother you as they are a tier above everyone and dominant in doing it. As fans we want every event to have all the top guys and have loaded QFs to Finals. As a coach I also think they value different events. I want to say MN has been doing this for a few years now, switching up their holiday events every few years. It is also a treat for places like FL etc to see programs like Lehigh and MN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Plasmodium said:

Cliff keen was the toughest this year.   It would be nice if Penn state played along.  Last year they were scheduled for Reno.

Last year the severe winter storm played havoc with travel and Penn State did not make the trip because of it. I'm guessing that figured into their plans for this year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys please keep in mind the responsibility and goal of a coach is to prepare his team for the NCAA championships not a tournament 3 months before. There will be great wrestling every weekend but not every event will have top 5 guys in every weight class, nor should it.

 

The cream will rise in March which is when it matters. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Zebra said:

Guys please keep in mind the responsibility and goal of a coach is to prepare his team for the NCAA championships not a tournament 3 months before. There will be great wrestling every weekend but not every event will have top 5 guys in every weight class, nor should it.

 

The cream will rise in March which is when it matters. 

 

 

False. Its is the coaches responsibility to prepare his team for the ENTIRE season, not just 1 tournament in March.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, gopher_fan_90 said:

I think what is hurting the Scuffle is how many teams are starting to be more "aware" for lack of a better word of seed implications. For the Big Ten schools, to go to Cliff Keen and the Scuffle you potentially run in to seeing some guys 4-5 times in a season. If you are a Nolf or Nickal this probably doesn't bother you as they are a tier above everyone and dominant in doing it. As fans we want every event to have all the top guys and have loaded QFs to Finals. As a coach I also think they value different events. I want to say MN has been doing this for a few years now, switching up their holiday events every few years. It is also a treat for places like FL etc to see programs like Lehigh and MN.

I think everyone would agree that if those schools like Cornell, Minnesota, Lehigh (full team), NC St and a couple of others were still at the Scuffle then The Scuffle would be better. The corollary being that their absence has hurt The Scuffle. The simple answer then is that what has hurt The Scuffle is all of these teams pulling out of the event.

The deeper question is why they did that. Your post might be a plausible answer. Perhaps Cornell and a few other teams that once always came to The Scuffle but now go to their newly minted South Beach Duals do so for the reason you laid out above.

Edited by TBar1977

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

False. Its is the coaches responsibility to prepare his team for the ENTIRE season, not just 1 tournament in March.

Sadly, with the way DI wrestling is currently configured, that really isn't accurate.  Time and time again it is made CLEAR that March is all that really matters and duals are an afterthought.  This is even further enforced by how the Midlands and even Scuffle have dropped off.  Cliff Keen has made a jump, but I would expect that to level off and drop a bit before too long.

Also, you will hear many coaches talk about "peaking" for March.  Without some type of focus on a National Duals(which looks to be dead for good), I don't see this changing any time soon......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, cjc007 said:

It doesn't look like it.

A dual meet in a tournament format. 64ba0e5b5f711c9c5510834173e486c0.jpg

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 

Well to be fair there will probably only be a few PSU/OSU finals (133, 149, 197 with the best chance IMO with a couple other possibilities, and 141 could have been if Brock didn’t MFFT).  But between the 2 I think they might have all the champs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duke, with Finesilver at 149 has the best chance to block the PSU/OkState shutout.  After that, I would say Lock Haven, with Marsteller(although I would say unlikely) and then McFadden for Vtech, although having to beat Joe Smith and Mark Hall to do it makes the chances much slimmer.....After that, I just don't see it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Spot on MSU158. So weve entered the era of "superteams" with a second tier of excellence pursuing those one or two other podium spots each tournament? 

And, if anyone could shed light on some missing athletes....

Zach Zavatsky 

Zac Parker

Mekhi Lewis

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so... 2 out of the 4 125 Consi of 8 #2 were MFF's.  I hardly believe it to be the case.  Instead, I think their 'feelers got hurt' instead. 

Two of the four at 141 are MFF's.  

One of the four at 157 are MFF

One of the four at 197 are MFF

What do they all have in common (other than being "medical" forfeits)?  All the guys that forfeit suffered some type of "upset" (or crushing in Teske's case).  If that's true, then their feelings really are hurt.  Maybe we need an EFF, an Emotional Forfeit.  This way, we can create a safe space where those who choose to wrestle on scholarship and get their education completely paid for (only because of wrestling) can choose to wrestle or not.  

Now... I know I'm being "dumb", and I'm sure that there are good reasons... but still.  

Edited by treep2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Well now Treep2000, dont leave us in suspense. How do you really feel? 

I seriously doubt all these "men" are seriously injured.  Their ego?  absolutely.  Their feelings?  Probably.  Their bodies?  I just am very suspicious and skeptical.  If there is one trend in wrestling that should be reversed, it's this concept of MFF'ing out of tourney's because you lost a match you probably shouldn't have and can't place as high as you would otherwise like.

Edited by treep2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

Sadly, with the way DI wrestling is currently configured, that really isn't accurate.  Time and time again it is made CLEAR that March is all that really matters and duals are an afterthought.  This is even further enforced by how the Midlands and even Scuffle have dropped off.  Cliff Keen has made a jump, but I would expect that to level off and drop a bit before too long.

Also, you will hear many coaches talk about "peaking" for March.  Without some type of focus on a National Duals(which looks to be dead for good), I don't see this changing any time soon......

Somewhat. This is true for the best teams by and large, but it does depend on the school. For example, Iowa fans expect them to put out a good dual team. Tom can’t sit his team for big duals all the time. 

For a school like Fresno State, they aren’t just trying to peak for March. They need to win duals and continue building the hype.This helps them with funding and recruitment. 

March is what matters in the record books and the best schools’ fans mostly care about podium placements, but duals and other tournaments still matter in other ways

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Spot on MSU158. So weve entered the era of "superteams" with a second tier of excellence pursuing those one or two other podium spots each tournament? 

And, if anyone could shed light on some missing athletes....

Zach Zavatsky 

Zac Parker

Mekhi Lewis

 

Mekhi I know was supposed to compete as of a couple days prior. Not sure what happened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

I seriously doubt all these "men" are seriously injured.  Their ego?  absolutely.  Their feelings?  Probably.  Their bodies?  I just am very suspicious and skeptical.  If there is one trend in wrestling that should be reversed, it's this concept of MFF'ing out of tourney's because you lost a match you probably shouldn't have and can't place as high as you would otherwise like.

Maybe this is why so many teams have decided not to go to the Scuffle or Midlands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Maybe this is why so many teams have decided not to go to the Scuffle or Midlands.

Which really doesn't support my hopeful perspective on making the sport more attractive and more lucrative for the wrestlers.  Call me old fashioned, but if you choose to wrestle, you wrestle.  When you cannot, you can't.  The overall "rate" of MFF's seem pretty high.  I don't know what the stats look like, but, with today's conditioning/workout/supplement regimens, I find it hard to believe that we're hurting each other at a higher rate than what we did 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Verk just got pinned by Zovistoski as time ran out.  Sure... he gave up the takedown with seconds left to lose the match, knocking him out of the tourney, but he literally gave up, and laid flat on his back.  Interesting... his 'feelers' must have gotten hurt too... 

Edited by treep2000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Which really doesn't support my hopeful perspective on making the sport more attractive and more lucrative for the wrestlers.  Call me old fashioned, but if you choose to wrestle, you wrestle.  When you cannot, you can't.  The overall "rate" of MFF's seem pretty high.  I don't know what the stats look like, but, with today's conditioning/workout/supplement regimens, I find it hard to believe that we're hurting each other at a higher rate than what we did 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

Maybe its a reflection of society as a whole.

40 years ago HS teams were loaded. many schools had full varsity and JV line ups. Kids were willing to be on the team and train even if they werent the number 1 guy for their school

During the 80s/90s JV teams faded away because no one wanted to be a back up.

Now schools are struggling to fill varsity line ups because kids dont want to train unless they are the best in the state/country.

Takes those kids who are used to dominating the field in HS and now theyre run of the mill. Its tough for them to be motivated now that theyre no longer the top guy. Whom should they perform for? an audience that quite frankly doesnt care unless theyre top 5 in the country?

Combine that with there being countless other things kids can do with their time.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...