The Southern Scuffle Thread

[MSU158 1,522]

8 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Spot on MSU158. So weve entered the era of "superteams" with a second tier of excellence pursuing those one or two other podium spots each tournament? 

And, if anyone could shed light on some missing athletes....

Zach Zavatsky 

Zac Parker

Mekhi Lewis

 

This sport has ALWAYS been top heavy, as evidenced by how few teams have won Team Titles.  However, over this past 4 year cycle, it may be even more so than I can remember.

Hell, even in the Top 5 there are at least 3 tiers and the top 4 have shown to be pretty far ahead of the rest with "maybe" #5 stepping closer going into next season.

Tier 1:

1.)PSU-No need to say anything that everyone doesn't already know.  Average of 119.5 over the past 4 years(should probably be higher if not for the 2015 rebuilding year).

2.)tOSU-Although they are still behind PSU, they have won it in the past 4 years and have finished 1st,3rd,2nd,2nd.  Averge of 108.1 over the past 4 years.

Tier 2: Consistently top 5, but not even averaging 100 per year.

3.)Iowa-2nd,5th,4th,3rd averaging 89.75 over the past 4 years.

4.)OkState-7th,2nd,3rd,13th averaging 75.75 over the past 4 years.

Tier 3:  I struggle to put any of these teams truly at #5 so I just named a few:

 Missouri- the only team averaging above 70 with 74, but they are consistently ONLY in that point range and not really challenging for Top3, having finished 4th,6th,5th,6th.  Brian Smith has done a fabulous job, but I think they have peaked.

Cornell follows considerably lower with 62, finishing 5th,7th,8th,7th

After that I think it truly comes down to UofM.  They are the only program with the resources and recruiting to truly challenge the top 4.  Although this has been true for a while with limited results, it does appear that Bormet has finally got them trending in the right direction.  With what happened at Minnesota I really don't see any other team disturbing the top 4 on any sort of consistent basis.

With that said NCState and Pat P. deserve a shout out.  Over the past couple of seasons he has brought them into a Top 5 conversation and could challenge Missouri for consistency, although I see them with a similar ceiling.

 

[MSU158 1,522]

27 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

Somewhat. This is true for the best teams by and large, but it does depend on the school. For example, Iowa fans expect them to put out a good dual team. Tom can’t sit his team for big duals all the time. 

For a school like Fresno State, they aren’t just trying to peak for March. They need to win duals and continue building the hype.This helps them with funding and recruitment. 

March is what matters in the record books and the best schools’ fans mostly care about podium placements, but duals and other tournaments still matter in other ways

I hear ya on Fresno State, but that is really only temporary.  As far as Iowa goes, I think that has finally changed as well.  As evidenced by how few starters have taken the mat so far this season.  Banged up guys used to still take the mat in duals, but I don't think you will see that as much going forward.  They still want to win duals, but I doubt you will see the full starting lineup on a regular basis anymore...

[treep2000 903]

it's hard to believe that at a time when our success on the international level is hitting some super high notes, that our domestic competition is falling?  I dunno... just sad... 

[TBar1977 3,819]

13 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

This sport has ALWAYS been top heavy, as evidenced by how few teams have won Team Titles.  However, over this past 4 year cycle, it may be even more so than I can remember.

Hell, even in the Top 5 there are at least 3 tiers and the top 4 have shown to be pretty far ahead of the rest with "maybe" #5 stepping closer going into next season.

Tier 1:

1.)PSU-No need to say anything that everyone doesn't already know.  Average of 119.5 over the past 4 years(should probably be higher if not for the 2015 rebuilding year).

2.)tOSU-Although they are still behind PSU, they have won it in the past 4 years and have finished 1st,3rd,2nd,2nd.  Averge of 108.1 over the past 4 years.

Tier 2: Consistently top 5, but not even averaging 100 per year.

3.)Iowa-2nd,5th,4th,3rd averaging 89.75 over the past 4 years.

4.)OkState-7th,2nd,3rd,13th averaging 75.75 over the past 4 years.

Tier 3:  I struggle to put any of these teams truly at #5 so I just named a few:

 Missouri- the only team averaging above 70 with 74, but they are consistently ONLY in that point range and not really challenging for Top3, having finished 4th,6th,5th,6th.  Brian Smith has done a fabulous job, but I think they have peaked.

Cornell follows considerably lower with 62, finishing 5th,7th,8th,7th

After that I think it truly comes down to UofM.  They are the only program with the resources and recruiting to truly challenge the top 4.  Although this has been true for a while with limited results, it does appear that Bormet has finally got them trending in the right direction.  With what happened at Minnesota I really don't see any other team disturbing the top 4 on any sort of consistent basis.

With that said NCState and Pat P. deserve a shout out.  Over the past couple of seasons he has brought them into a Top 5 conversation and could challenge Missouri for consistency, although I see them with a similar ceiling.

 

 

2020 and 2021 Iowa and Ohio State at a minimum will have their opportunity to beat PSU. Whether they can do it or not only time will tell, but it won't be for a lack of talent on their rosters. 

[TBar1977 3,819]

I am getting a kick out of the young kid doing the announcing on Mat 1. 

[treep2000 903]

The kid sounds better than most of the actual adult announcers I've heard.  He's even pronouncing names correctly.  

[TBar1977 3,819]

2 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

The kid sounds better than most of the actual adult announcers I've heard.  He's even pronouncing names correctly.  

He also knows every position and move and announces them effortlessly. He even has a sense of humor. "His shoes obviously come from the mighty shoe collection of Jacob Kasper". Too funny. Flo needs to open the petty cash drawer and flip this kid some $$$ after today. 

Edited January 2, 2019 by TBar1977

[treep2000 903]

Just now, TBar1977 said:

He also knows every position and move and announces them effortlessly. He even has a sense of humor. "His shoes obviously come from the mighty shoe collection of Jacob Kasper". Too funny. 

I hope they're paying the kid... If they're not... we should send some emails to Flo demanding that they staff this kid!

[TBar1977 3,819]

1 minute ago, treep2000 said:

I hope they're paying the kid... If they're not... we should send some emails to Flo demanding that they staff this kid!

Kid has a vocabulary too, if you have noticed. 

[treep2000 903]

1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Kid has a vocabulary too, if you have noticed. 

Me know speek good.  

[KTG119 819]

26 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

This sport has ALWAYS been top heavy, as evidenced by how few teams have won Team Titles.  However, over this past 4 year cycle, it may be even more so than I can remember.

 

agree that the sport has always been top heavy. I think the Iowa run in the 80s was, well one longer than the 4 year cycle you reference, and at least as top heavy with the remaining top 4 spots almost always being Ok St, ISU, and Oklahoma during those 9 years.  

[ionel 1,318]

56 minutes ago, headshuck said:

Remember, Carl declared that duals and non-NCAA tournaments don’t really matter. All the fans need to see is the NCAA championships in March.

;)

[JasonBryant 1,674]

All other mics are muted and it's Sam Herring on my speakers. 

[BigTenFanboy 1,710]

Thomas Haines Forfeits out.

[Gilgamesh 11]

MSU158, that was smooth on the fly numbers crunching. Early nominee on this post for the Earl Smith Factmonger award.

[treep2000 903]

Just now, BigTenFanboy said:

Thomas Haines Forfeits out.

Was it a Medical Forfeit, or an Emotional Forfeit.  

[Gilgamesh 11]

Damn, BigTenFanBoy, just pour some more lemon juice on all of our paper cuts, why dont you. Really was hoping for a high finish for Lock Haven....

[gimpeltf 1,521]

3 minutes ago, JasonBryant said:

All other mics are muted and it's Sam Herring on my speakers. 

I wonder if he's related to Lehigh's Brock Herring from Tn. Our bio on him shows a brother Ian though.

[BigTenFanboy 1,710]

 

2 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

Damn, BigTenFanBoy, just pour some more lemon juice on all of our paper cuts, why dont you. Really was hoping for a high finish for Lock Haven....

LOL. Sorry. I was rooting for Haines to do well here too.

[HurricaneWrestling2 581]

What time does the wrestling resume?  She who must be obeyed wants me to run some errands.

[Gilgamesh 11]

My SoCon boys showing out! App Sts Alan Clothier and Randall Diabe advanced. Did I read it right that Zovitovski took out Verkleeren? Also, please, someone shake the UTC twitter voice and get him/her some coffee. Think they're still asleep.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Gilgamesh

[HurricaneWrestling2 581]

9 minutes ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

What time does the wrestling resume? 

1:30 pm

[HurricaneWrestling2 581]

Just now, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

1:30 pm

Thanks.

[dmm53 471]

25 minutes ago, treep2000 said:

Was it a Medical Forfeit, or an Emotional Forfeit.  

Emotional Forfeit.   That's pretty funny.   It suggests a whole range of possibilities and subcategories:  revenge forfeit, spite forfeit, narcissistic forfeit, apathetic forfeit, hunger forfeit, agoraphobic forfeit, etc.

[HurricaneWrestling2 581]

9 minutes ago, Gilgamesh said:

 Did I read it right that Zovitovski took out Verkleeren? 

Yes - Zovitovski was down by one but got a TD in the last couple of seconds.  Knowing he'd lost, Verkleeren just gave up and laid on the mat.  Zovitovski by Pinfall!