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285 Rankings

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For the most part I feel like Flo does an excellent job when doing rankings, but their 285 rankings imo are way way off... It's the one weight that will be dramatically different from NCAA results...     

 

 

  I believe in the past Pyles would wait till New Year to start removing inactive or guys that have been out. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Stoll move down, Gross moved down and Hermedia dropped out completely. Dhesi shouldn’t have been put into top spot right off the bat IMO.   

 

 

I generally think Intermat and Track has the most realistic rankings as they use a little more common sense, where as Pyles sticks to some formula.

 

The ranking to me that FLO has messed up royally is 184. Shakur started season at 5. Venz and ZZ started season ranked ahead. They both took multiple losses and once they lost, Shak should have move up. Instead FLO moved Shak down behind guys they lost to. Now EVERY other ranking service has it correct but for some reason Plyles thinks it’s ok to have guys with multiple losses in front of Shak

 

Props to the Open Mat as they were the only ranking service to NOT put Dhesi on top once he decided he was coming back

 

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To be consistent, and until proven otherwise, Stollhouse probably should still be #1.  

Gable #2, White #3, Cassar #4, Dhesi #5, Hemida #6... I give up after that.

I guess Parris now needs to be Top 10?  His ranking is a little messy.  

Parris v. Cassar should be interesting... I think Cassar wins right now.  

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Where do you put the highest returning AA's that haven't lost yet, regardless of how little they have wrestled?  Do you just arbitrarily move them down until a spot you FEEL fits them.  That is the crux of it.  This isn't seeding, this is ranking.  Dhesi should have been #1 because the end of last year's version belongs there.  However, he proved he isn't that version right now. 

In the case of Stoll, he has pretty much wrestled "ugly" a majority of his career.  Still, he hasn't lost.  His limited matches will probably hurt him a bit going into B1G's, but that weight is so loaded that he will earn both his ranking and seed at that point.

So, just let the rankings be.  There IS a reason that these guys with limited matches stay ranked that high, as long as they haven't lost.  That is because the last version of them was the best out of the group and we have yet to see anything from them that drops them from that version.

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21 minutes ago, Husker_Du said:

Most guys didn't get shot in the knee

 

9 minutes ago, BigTenFanboy said:

Not making light of the situation but wouldn't being shot logically cause your ranking to go down?

I get that, but how do you gauge where that should put him in the rankings.  Do you know the actual severity of the wound? Recover rate?  Recovery percentage?  Otherwise you are just saying "I feel" he should be lower and I will arbitrarily decide where.

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10 hours ago, Perry said:

Any ranking list including Stoll is off

He's healthy enough that he can wrestle and he's probably still a top 20 guy even when he's hobbled.  But he definitely isn't the #1 wrestler in the country right now and its bizarre that almost all the rankers are pretending like he is. Even with a good draw he won't make it past the quarterfinals at NCAAs unless his knee magically gets a lot better in the next two months. 

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6 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

 

I get that, but how do you gauge where that should put him in the rankings.  Do you know the actual severity of the wound? Recover rate?  Recovery percentage?  Otherwise you are just saying "I feel" he should be lower and I will arbitrarily decide where.

I get what you're saying as well but he hasn't exactly wrestled all that much either. I personally don't think Seth Gross should keep his number 1 ranking either until he comes back...

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8 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

 

I get that, but how do you gauge where that should put him in the rankings.  Do you know the actual severity of the wound? Recover rate?  Recovery percentage?  Otherwise you are just saying "I feel" he should be lower and I will arbitrarily decide where.

it's a tough situation for sure. the results on the mat warranted his preseason ranking. but since then (halfway through the season) there are 1) still questions about what ability level he's at and 2) new data points.

it doesn't sit well with me, and a lot of others, that guys are out here wrestling while he (and gross) maintain their ranking.

Iowa duals Minnesota next weekend. If Stoll doesn't go against Gable, I'd pull him and then totally re-rank him when he comes back based upon his results this year.

if he does go and loses to Gable, i hope he doesn't maintain #2 for essentially being 0-1. 

Edited by Husker_Du

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3 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

 

I get that, but how do you gauge where that should put him in the rankings.  Do you know the actual severity of the wound? Recover rate?  Recovery percentage?  Otherwise you are just saying "I feel" he should be lower and I will arbitrarily decide where.

I can say with a very high degree of confidence that Stoll wouldn't be able to touch Stevenson, Cassar, or White right now.  And probably would struggle against the guys a tier below that. Whether he should be ranked 10th or 15th is just getting in to the weeds and I wouldn't argue with either. 

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1 minute ago, BigTenFanboy said:

I get what you're saying as well but he hasn't exactly wrestled all that much either. I personally don't think Seth Gross should keep his number 1 ranking either until he comes back...

That I agree with, but I wouldn't rank him lower(because I don't think you have any true measure on where to move him) I would just not rank him until he comes back and wrestles.

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2 minutes ago, ThatLogSchuteWasCarrying said:

I can say with a very high degree of confidence that Stoll wouldn't be able to touch Stevenson, Cassar, or White right now.  And probably would struggle against the guys a tier below that. Whether he should be ranked 10th or 15th is just getting in to the weeds and I wouldn't argue with either. 

That I disagree with.  Stoll has always been, and will continue to be hard to score on and wrestle a VERY UGLY 285 styles.  Due to his style, and size, he will be in matches with anyone at 285.  Admittedly, he may not be at his absolute best and as such would have a harder time beating these guys, but his style will have him in these matches at the end.

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Just now, MSU158 said:

That I disagree with.  Stoll has always been, and will continue to be hard to score on and wrestle a VERY UGLY 285 styles.  Due to his style, and size, he will be in matches with anyone at 285.  Admittedly, he may not be at his absolute best and as such would have a harder time beating these guys, but his style will have him in these matches at the end.

I see Stoll as 4th right now behind Gable, White, and Cassar.

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Just now, TobusRex said:

Meh, somebody should feed the results of all the matches into a computer and let it spit out the rankings. Would keep human subjectivity out of it (except for programmer's bias, maybe).

That is damn near what is done for NCAA Tourney seeding purposes.  But, again, this is weekly rankings.  Much like NCAA Football or even Basketball you rarely see top teams move down for ugly wins or limited action.  Until the top team loses, they usually stay at the top.

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4 minutes ago, MSU158 said:

That I agree with, but I wouldn't rank him lower(because I don't think you have any true measure on where to move him) I would just not rank him until he comes back and wrestles.

He has a 5-1 win over Gremmel, a 3-1 win over Gunning, and a fall over Shedenhelm.  The best win of those three is probably Gremmel. Gremmel is not ranked but probably will be somewhere in the 21-25 range in the coaches panel when it comes out.  So Stoll is probably a top twenty guy even with one leg. But 5-1 and 3-1 aren't exactly impressive wins so I wouldn't put him in the top 12. Anywhere from 13-20 would be a reasonable place to rank him based on results so far this season.

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Just now, ThatLogSchuteWasCarrying said:

He has a 5-1 win over Gremmel, a 3-1 win over Gunning, and a fall over Shedenhelm.  The best win of those three is probably Gremmel. Gremmel is not ranked but probably will be somewhere in the 21-25 range in the coaches panel when it comes out.  So Stoll is probably a top twenty guy even with one leg. But 5-1 and 3-1 aren't exactly impressive wins so I wouldn't put him in the top 12. Anywhere from 13-20 would be a reasonable place to rank him based on results so far this season.

You miss the point.  Stoll's style is NOT about blowing people out.  Hell, if you judged Dake by his margin of victories would you move him down?  And remember, he wasn't at a weight that really doesn't score points to begin with.

Also, Stoll may not be winning by much, but the bigger measure would be if he was giving up takedowns or getting ridden in those matches.  His ability to ride, escape rather easily and not get taken down has always been what puts him into the AA conversation.  If that remains, he ends up flustering many of his opponents and was able to press them into pummeling situations that he dominates in.

Steveson is a beast and I think he will have a hard time with him.  But, I think the faster, smaller White and Cassar will have a very difficult time getting to his legs and finishing and Stoll will be able to use his size to bury them if they get caught underneath.

Simply put,  Stoll is at a weight and has a body type and style that shouldn't be overly compromised by his injury.

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