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NC State vs Ohio State 1/6/19 6:00 EST on ESPN2

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2 hours ago, Housebuye said:

Agreed mostly. Good post. 

2. Agreed. The clock look was amateur for someone as seasoned as Martin. Coaches should've told him to get another takedown and not go for the rideout. He had over 30 seconds left and was scoring almost at will.

4. Hayes isn't AAing at 157 if he wrestles like this. He has to get to try to be offensive. His best position is top. Why not try to get there? If he tries to go takedown for takedown when he is way smaller than everyone, he is going to take more Barone type losses. He is a very good wrestler, but his style is killing me. 

5. Seems like they are going to give Malik a shot. It appears to be a bit premature, but they see him in the room everyday against NATO, Pletcher, McKenna, Stieber, etc. Him AAing is possible if he has put on a bit more strength and cleaned up his defense since we saw him last. 

6. not sure why everyone is off the Romero bandwagon all of a sudden. He is a redshirt freshman who is borderline top 20. He is unlikely to place this year, but we know he is an excellent athlete and has been working hard. He has a great shot at AAing before the end of his career

Attempting to answer #6 above... 

When a program is "spoiled" by having a 4x NCAA Champ, a 4x Finalist/3x Champ, true freshman champ, and 4x AA's, all at the same time, anyone who fills a weight class has expectations that are darn near unreasonable by 98% of the other team's standards.  But... these ARE the standards at tOSU AND PSU.  If you don't run a high likelihood of AAing, then the fanbase immediately calls that weight class and person as a "hole" in the lineup.  Compound that with the heir apparent in Kharchla coming next year, and you have a recipe for "jumping off" the bandwagon.  

My attempt at logic... in an illogical time... 

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First off props to both coaches for no hold outs.

125 - tOSU should pull Malik's shirt.
133 - I hope Wilson is OK. He looked like legit high AA as opposed to a guy who had a good weekend last March
141 - McKenna looks like a finalist this year
149 - Nice win for Jordan but not as dominant as I expected from him after dropping from 157
157 - Hidlay is just flat out better and stronger than Hayes. It showed and resulted in a track meet with HH chasing Hayes for the better part of the match. There should have been more stall calls against Hayes
165 - Bullard in OT both of these guys are 1-2 types in March. tOSU fans seem to have overestimated how good Romero was going to be once he became a wrestling only guy.
174 - Didn't see
184 - Martin looked so damn good piss pounding a very good Reenan
197 - Kollin more looks like this year's version of the Buckeye most likely to get decked by Bo in the NCAA finals. McDonald looked better than I was expecting.
285 - Singletary had the pin.

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11 hours ago, silvermedal said:

I love Myles Martin and he has clearly established himself as one of the nation's elite.  That said--was I the only person who noticed that Reenan appeared to have a knee problem?   

Reenan definitely appeared injured. Martin looked good but Reenan was way off.  I just hope he’s healthy in March. 

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I feel like I wouldn't give up on Kaleb Romero just yet. He's halfway through his first season of being exposed to high level competition for the first time ever.  He's gonna take some lumps in the upcoming Big Ten wrestling schedule. But he's got incredible explosiveness and athletic ability, and that can't be taught. Once he learns to finish in tight positions, look out.

Singletary is a complete wild card for me at this point.  He could finish as a mid-level AA, he could go two and out at NCAA's. 

Malek needs to stay in redshirt and get bigger.  Not sure why anyone think's he's going to have an impact this year.... was it the :46 pin he recently suffered in an early consolation match at Midlands, or the 11-10 win over the guy from Harvard with the losing record?  Or his failure to win the Ohio Intercollegiate (won by a true frosh from John Carroll University)?  The talent is there, but he needs a year of strength and maturity and I see no benefit to burning his shirt.

Teshan Campbell dosen't get a lot of love on these forums but I thought he looked as good as I've seen him, and for the first time I was watching him thinking this was a guy who could get hot and get on the podium if everything fell right.

As for Hayes looking off, yes that's what happens when you are wrestling the NCAA Runner-up. Still think he has a shot to AA.

As always with Micah, he has the talent and the skills to beat anyone in any given match, but his bottom position wrestling is such a liability that it makes it difficult for me to see him winning the whole thing.

McKenna and Martin are both looking insanely good.  I feel like Martin is the heaviest favorite in the country other than Nolf and possibly Nickal.

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Malek needs to stay in redshirt and get bigger.  Not sure why anyone think's he's going to have an impact this year.... was it the :46 pin he recently suffered in an early consolation match at Midlands, or the 11-10 win over the guy from Harvard with the losing record?  Or his failure to win the Ohio Intercollegiate (won by a true frosh from John Carroll University)?  The talent is there, but he needs a year of strength and maturity and I see no benefit to burning his shirt.


Cradle1,
You actually make the argument FOR burning his shirt.
#1 If he is their best 125, then use him
#2 Half of the top ranked 125s right now are frosh/soph, he's probably not catching up to those guys next year (or the next)
#3 In all likelihood he will be recruited /transfer over if he doesn't improve dramatically.

Three or four decades ago, he's an All-American, but alas there no longer is a 118 lb weight class.

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17 hours ago, Housebuye said:

6. not sure why everyone is off the Romero bandwagon all of a sudden. He is a redshirt freshman who is borderline top 20. He is unlikely to place this year, but we know he is an excellent athlete and has been working hard. He has a great shot at AAing before the end of his career

 

14 hours ago, treep2000 said:

Attempting to answer #6 above... 

When a program is "spoiled" by having a 4x NCAA Champ, a 4x Finalist/3x Champ, true freshman champ, and 4x AA's, all at the same time, anyone who fills a weight class has expectations that are darn near unreasonable by 98% of the other team's standards.  But... these ARE the standards at tOSU AND PSU.  If you don't run a high likelihood of AAing, then the fanbase immediately calls that weight class and person as a "hole" in the lineup.  Compound that with the heir apparent in Kharchla coming next year, and you have a recipe for "jumping off" the bandwagon.  

My attempt at logic... in an illogical time... 

 

My perspective is guided by what is best for the team in March and the belief that the field, the brackets, and head to heads can make a competitive team race. With that said I need scorers frontside and backside at all 10 weights and I think the field, brackets, and head to head concern Ohio State the most at 125, 157, 165, and 174.

I don't think I am down on Romero, to me he is still an unknown to a degree. If you told me you could have TC at 165 or 174 with Romero at 165 and Smith at 174, I have more confidence or am higher on Smith than Romero with Campbell a known quality. I like the progress Smith has made better from the start of the year til now and if that continues the second half the season it widens that gap without a bigger jump from Romero. Whether the Bucks are fighting for a title or a trophy, points are points and they need wins

One way to look at Iowa 96.5 and Ohio State 92 is that if Sponseller beats Morningstar in 2009 then Tom Ryan has two team titles. At the same time tOSU could have qualified a 197 that scores or got a couple more points at 125 (2-2), 157 (0-2), 174 (1-2), or 285 (1-2) or Sponseller beats Sherefy and gets another win in the medal rounds. After Iowa won the title in 2008 by 40 points few considered Ohio State a contender and more so a bridesmaid the following year.

Penn State is the heavy favorite, they will more than likely score at least twenty more than iowa, think an over/under of 120 points. If I am Ohio State and Tom Ryan or any title contender I don't quit fighting for a title until the math/results say I can't win. If you can't get first get second, if you can't get second get third, if you aren't going to AA make it to the blood round, give me some wins, give me frontside points, give me backside bonus.

Edited by KSchlosser

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This is something that even knowledgeable  wrestling fans can never get through their head. 125 with same day weigh ins is exactly the same as 118 with day before weigh ins.   We used to drop 20 pounds of water weight and completely re-hydrate during the 24 hour window. I would know, I did it myself just to keep up.   I literally competed at 167 while weighing close to 190 pounds on match day.  When they change the way classes, there were literally zero 126s who went 125 the following year.   You can look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.

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1 hour ago, Cradle1 said:

This is something that even knowledgeable  wrestling fans can never get through their head. 125 with same day weigh ins is exactly the same as 118 with day before weigh ins.   We used to drop 20 pounds of water weight and completely re-hydrate during the 24 hour window. I would know, I did it myself just to keep up.   I literally competed at 167 while weighing close to 190 pounds on match day.  When they change the way classes, there were literally zero 126s who went 125 the following year.   You can look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.

What does have to do with the thread?  Malik?  His redshirt?  If so, I'm still not following.  Malik is 125 with jeans and a winter jacket on (I joke... but).  

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1 hour ago, Cradle1 said:

This is something that even knowledgeable  wrestling fans can never get through their head. 125 with same day weigh ins is exactly the same as 118 with day before weigh ins.   We used to drop 20 pounds of water weight and completely re-hydrate during the 24 hour window. I would know, I did it myself just to keep up.   I literally competed at 167 while weighing close to 190 pounds on match day.  When they change the way classes, there were literally zero 126s who went 125 the following year.   You can look it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.

I did and there was at least one who did. 

1998 NCAAs at Cleveland St. 126 lbs.. Matt Roth, Virginia, lost in RD16

1999 NCAAs at Penn State. 125 lbs. Matt Roth, Virginia [8], placed 7th

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21 hours ago, Housebuye said:

6. not sure why everyone is off the Romero bandwagon all of a sudden.  He is a redshirt freshman who is borderline top 20. He is unlikely to place this year, but we know he is an excellent athlete and has been working hard. He has a great shot at AAing before the end of his career

Ceiling: one-time AA. 

Floor: non-starter.   

 

Have not jumped on that wagon, yet.

 

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Buckeyes need a sports psychologist for Micah and Romero.  Micah is one of the most exciting wrestlers in the country and a great technician.  His struggles in bottom are mostly in his head.

I have seen Romero get in on shots at the collegiate level that I believe he would have finished in high school when he expected to score.   He seems intimidated by the expectations of being an AA caliber starter at this level.  It's a shame.  The talent is there.  I hope he can figure it out.  

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Having seen both in person, I can say that Romero is WAAAAAY more of an athlete/athletic than Kharchla (sp). I dont know if he is having trouble dropping to 65 or something else but I for one would not give up on an Ohio 4 time champ who also played football and did not wrestle year round.

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53 minutes ago, ConnorsDad said:

Having seen both in person, I can say that Romero is WAAAAAY more of an athlete/athletic than Kharchla (sp). I dont know if he is having trouble dropping to 65 or something else but I for one would not give up on an Ohio 4 time champ who also played football and did not wrestle year round.

I don't think anyone should give up on Romero.  But with all due respect (and I mean it), Kharchla is a better wrestler than Romero or Smith...or Campbell...or Rocky Jordan.  The moment he arrives on campus, he starts if that's the plan.  Kharchla reminds me of the PSU studs in that he makes the sport look easy.    

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On 1/7/2019 at 11:14 PM, Cradle1 said:

Malek needs to stay in redshirt and get bigger.  Not sure why anyone think's he's going to have an impact this year.... was it the :46 pin he recently suffered in an early consolation match at Midlands, or the 11-10 win over the guy from Harvard with the losing record?  Or his failure to win the Ohio Intercollegiate (won by a true frosh from John Carroll University)?  The talent is there, but he needs a year of strength and maturity and I see no benefit to burning his shirt.

Unless you think his development is going to be stifled by competing this year, why not pull the redshirt?

There's a very good chance Heinselman doesn't find his way into the lineup for all 4 years of his eligibility.  He clearly fits this year, though.  If he ends up manning the spot for this year and the next 3, great. 

Anyway, it looks like they're going to pull the trigger against Indiana.  

 

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On 1/8/2019 at 6:24 PM, ConnorsDad said:

Having seen both in person, I can say that Romero is WAAAAAY more of an athlete/athletic than Kharchla (sp). I dont know if he is having trouble dropping to 65 or something else but I for one would not give up on an Ohio 4 time champ who also played football and did not wrestle year round.

  Romero maybe would be a one or two time state champ, if Ohio had one division.

 

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:16 PM, treep2000 said:

What does have to do with the thread?  Malik?  His redshirt?  If so, I'm still not following.  Malik is 125 with jeans and a winter jacket on (I joke... but).  

My Ipad didn't quote correctly, leaving this to look like an off point rant. Someone previously made the remark that Malek would have been good if only they still had the 118 lb. class.  The whole "why'd they get rid of 118?" is just stupidity on steroids so I can't help but correct it when I see it.

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On ‎1‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 2:34 PM, gromit said:

I did and there was at least one who did. 

1998 NCAAs at Cleveland St. 126 lbs.. Matt Roth, Virginia, lost in RD16

1999 NCAAs at Penn State. 125 lbs. Matt Roth, Virginia [8], placed 7th

Lol well I think you kind of made my point for me, did you not?  One guy in a 32 man bracket at 126 moved down to 125 the following year.  And that comes with a major asterisk, as he had a teammate qualify at 118 (Steve Garland) who likely kept him out of the 118 spot either by beating him out (or they decided it was best for the team). 

By contrast, looking for just a minute I found two very key guys from 126 that moved all the way up to 141- NCAA Champion Doug Schwab and Carl Perry.  This was more common than wrestling at the new class that was one lb. lighter than your previous class.

Edited by Cradle1

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8 hours ago, steamboat_charlie v2 said:

Unless you think his development is going to be stifled by competing this year, why not pull the redshirt?

There's a very good chance Heinselman doesn't find his way into the lineup for all 4 years of his eligibility.  He clearly fits this year, though.  If he ends up manning the spot for this year and the next 3, great. 

Anyway, it looks like they're going to pull the trigger against Indiana.  

 

Solid logic for sure. I guess my thinking would be that as a 23 year old man four years from now, he's likely a sure fire AA, whereas I think he's two and bbq this year, best case scenario is one consolation round win so the possibility of a high finish four years from now is more enticing than what is essentially a "wash" between him and the other options, from an NCAA scoring standpoint at least.  But that's a very close call in my mind and I'm guessing that Tom Ryan and J.Jaggers have a lot better handle on what his potential is for this season than I do lol. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 9:31 PM, squeek said:

First off props to both coaches for no hold outs.

125 - tOSU should pull Malik's shirt.
133 - I hope Wilson is OK. He looked like legit high AA as opposed to a guy who had a good weekend last March
141 - McKenna looks like a finalist this year
149 - Nice win for Jordan but not as dominant as I expected from him after dropping from 157
157 - Hidlay is just flat out better and stronger than Hayes. It showed and resulted in a track meet with HH chasing Hayes for the better part of the match. There should have been more stall calls against Hayes
165 - Bullard in OT both of these guys are 1-2 types in March. tOSU fans seem to have overestimated how good Romero was going to be once he became a wrestling only guy.
174 - Didn't see
184 - Martin looked so damn good piss pounding a very good Reenan
197 - Kollin more looks like this year's version of the Buckeye most likely to get decked by Bo in the NCAA finals. McDonald looked better than I was expecting.
285 - Singletary had the pin.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk
 

Or, is it Myles Martin tagging off to Kollin Moore?  

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