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KTG119

Oklahoma St

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Yeah. Their challenge is they might not have any finalists. Both Iowa and tOSU have multiple potential finalists.

A guy like McKenna for example, even with minima bonus points, could place second and score 18 team points. That would account for a 7th place finish for DeSanto and Murin, along with no placement at 149. That is 1 guy accounting for 2 AAs and 3 qualifiers. 

They are going to have to wrestle perfectly to place 2nd . Possible, but I wouldn’t bet on it

 

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OSU has no way to replace Weigel's points and that will hurt them.  They'll need points from guys like Jacobe Smith and Geer wrestling up weight classes.  It also wouldn't hurt if Lewallen comes back and they have the courage to send Brock to the bench.  Gfellar could score big points at 141.

Edited by boconnell

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10 minutes ago, boconnell said:

OSU has no way to replace Weigel's points and that will hurt them.  They'll need points from guys like Jacobe Smith and Geer wrestling up weight classes.  It also wouldn't hurt if Lewallen comes back and they have the courage to send Brock to the bench.  Gfellar could score big points at 141.

Been preaching this since before the season started, and even more-so now that its been proven. Brock's style isn't as effective up a weight, and Gfeller CAN WIN MATCHES. I dont care if Brock has his number in the room. Or if Boo does.... the most effective line up starts 
Picc-Fix-Gfeller-Boo.... but yeah Weigels points are so sad to lose.  but potential for 8 AA's maybe a couple finalist, they will be in the mix for second, depending on how other teams preform. 
The lack of potential champions though is the biggest problem, Fix/Picc/JoJo all seem like they "could" win, but only give Fix a realistic shot. 
Iowa has Lee. in my opinion only Lee (I dont think they end up with another finalist)
Ohio State has Mymar and I guess Moore (but im not sold)  Mckenna is pretty likely a finalist, not Jordan,
Yeah just going to come down to performances. would be a super exciting team race if Penn State wasnt there. 

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I love Brock.  I love his style.  I don't mind the maddening losses, the poor decisions, and the bad bottom wrestling.  I love his offense so much I put up with all of it.  But at 141 he doesn't have offense.  So you are left with the other issues without anything that makes those issues worth it.  I would absolutely not mind Fix at 125 and Brock at 133.  But if Fix is at 133 I don't see why Brock is in the lineup.  I can all but guarantee he finishes lower than Gfeller would at that weight.  He's just not strong enough for 141.

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I think they AA at 125, 133, 141, 149, 165, 174 and 285. 

141 is def a question but I believe in Brock. 

165 is a question too but similar situation - Chandler figures it out when it matters. There will be AAs who don’t repeat this year at 165 though. Too stacked. 

184 is a serious question. If scuffle is any indication, Jacobe can’t handle the size difference 

197 they can but Geer is way undersized. He is the same size as Rasheed last year. Remember Rasheed was having an excellent season but ended up placing 7th - size matters, even in a bad weight. 

The fun part is, they can legitimately have 9 AAs. Last year they almost had 8! It was mostly a string of bad luck/minor mistakes. Weigel got injured, White was right there in a strong weigby, Picc had a terrible draw, Heil had the worst season ever and still was clearly a top 8 wrestler (really? Getting pinned in the R12?). Not to mention Joe Smith on the bench...

im doing my best to not allow last year’s terrible performance influence me. That was just about worst case scenario. This year they have Smith and Fix, White is looking to be top 3ish, and Gfeller replaces Boo. The only holes are 197 (maybe - not Geer’s fault) and 157 with a borderline top 20 guy. 

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51 minutes ago, Housebuye said:

I think they AA at 125, 133, 141, 149, 165, 174 and 285. 

141 is def a question but I believe in Brock. 

165 is a question too but similar situation - Chandler figures it out when it matters. There will be AAs who don’t repeat this year at 165 though. Too stacked. 

184 is a serious question. If scuffle is any indication, Jacobe can’t handle the size difference 

197 they can but Geer is way undersized. He is the same size as Rasheed last year. Remember Rasheed was having an excellent season but ended up placing 7th - size matters, even in a bad weight. 

The fun part is, they can legitimately have 9 AAs. Last year they almost had 8! It was mostly a string of bad luck/minor mistakes. Weigel got injured, White was right there in a strong weigby, Picc had a terrible draw, Heil had the worst season ever and still was clearly a top 8 wrestler (really? Getting pinned in the R12?). Not to mention Joe Smith on the bench...

im doing my best to not allow last year’s terrible performance influence me. That was just about worst case scenario. This year they have Smith and Fix, White is looking to be top 3ish, and Gfeller replaces Boo. The only holes are 197 (maybe - not Geer’s fault) and 157 with a borderline top 20 guy. 

141: Likewise, I believe in Brock, all of his issues this year can be fixed and he seems big enough for 141.  Perhaps he had other stuff he could do better at 133 but he also had a 3rd period gas tank problem down there.

149:  Even though speculation about Boo return,  G is doing just fine can go hard at 49 and we don't know the full shoulder/whatever issue, perhaps if Boo back 100% he needs to go 57, imo 57 is the big hole in the lineup and points from Shomers questionable

184:  I don't see the size as the issue here (just as not with 133, 141, or 149)  Jocobe is still wrestling the same and it was not going to work at 174 against top guys, he's got to wrestle to his strengths, given quickness on his feet and how strong he is, why would he try to win a scramble with someone who can scramble, use your strength to take the stale mat and get back on your feet.

197: yeah Geer looks undersized, but has time to adjust to the weight, Weigel can score more points but ...

The big question will be are all their "best" guys healthy at end of the year, its good that they have backup options.

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Who knows if Gfeller could be as effective at 141? 149 is probably his most comfortable weight. Why not instead bump the loser of Boo/Gfeller to fill the hole at 157 with a potential scorer.

People here last year were saying that OSU would be better this year and had 2nd place potential. 

 

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2 hours ago, ionel said:

141: Likewise, I believe in Brock, all of his issues this year can be fixed and he seems big enough for 141.  Perhaps he had other stuff he could do better at 133 but he also had a 3rd period gas tank problem down there.

149:  Even though speculation about Boo return,  G is doing just fine can go hard at 49 and we don't know the full shoulder/whatever issue, perhaps if Boo back 100% he needs to go 57, imo 57 is the big hole in the lineup and points from Shomers questionable

Agree that the 157 hole is more of a concern than 141.  Gfeller has earned the right to stay at 149.  Could Boo score points at 157 ?

is Geo Martinez officially done ?

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2 hours ago, Show_Me said:

Agree that the 157 hole is more of a concern than 141.  Gfeller has earned the right to stay at 149.  Could Boo score points at 157 ?

is Geo Martinez officially done ?

What has Gfeller done to bump Boo to 157?  OSU isn't going to make lineup decisions to maximize team points when they have no chance at winning.  There is no way a better wrestler gets bumped to 157 for lineup purposes, they will let guys go in the weight they are best.  And at this point it is very much up for debate who is better at 149.  Lewallen is a returning AA who has the far superior wins and apparently the head to head earlier this year.  Now if Gfeller goes out and beats Koldzik or Ashnault this weekend, then it gets far more interesting.

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4 hours ago, ionel said:

141: Likewise, I believe in Brock, all of his issues this year can be fixed and he seems big enough for 141.  Perhaps he had other stuff he could do better at 133 but he also had a 3rd period gas tank problem down there.

Who is the best 141 he has beaten this year?  He's lost to McKee, Demas, and Sam Turner (#7, #8, and #11).  He has not beaten anything close to a ranked wrestler.  In over half a season of wrestling I see nothing to indicate he is an AA at this weight.

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2 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Who is the best 141 he has beaten this year?  He's lost to McKee, Demas, and Sam Turner (#7, #8, and #11).  He has not beaten anything close to a ranked wrestler.  In over half a season of wrestling I see nothing to indicate he is an AA at this weight.

I'm not referring to who he has beat, but to how he is wrestling and that the mistakes he has made can be fixed.  He could be making the same mistakes at 133. 

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Just now, ionel said:

I'm not referring to who he has beat, but to how he is wrestling and that the mistakes he has made can be fixed.  He could be making the same mistakes at 133. 

I saw no mistakes in the McKee match that were easily fixable.  In the Demas match he could avoid going upper body but that only leaves the match tied.  In both matches he couldn't generate offense.  That was NEVER a problem at 133.  I didn't see the Turner match.  

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52 minutes ago, boconnell said:

What has Gfeller done to bump Boo to 157?  

Win. 

Can Boo coming off a long absence/injury now beat Gfeller who has won all 16 of his matches since taking over 149 ?   If yes, I completely agree with you that Boo should get 149 back.  However, I wonder if that is the case ?  Hence the speculation that Boo "may" wrestle 157.

 

59 minutes ago, boconnell said:

OSU isn't going to make lineup decisions to maximize team points when they have no chance at winning.

Depends what your definition of "winning" is.  If you mean Championship, then I agree. 

There are 4 Team Trophies. The Cowboys are very much in contention for 2nd/3rd/4th.  Who occupies 149 & 157 could prove to be the difference between 2nd/3rd, 3rd/4th, or 4th/5th.  Only Coach Smith knows how important "final placement" is to him & the Program.

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

  OSU isn't going to make lineup decisions to maximize team points when they have no chance at winning. 

Then what do you call bumping Jacobe and Geer up a weight?

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1 hour ago, boconnell said:

I saw no mistakes in the McKee match that were easily fixable.  In the Demas match he could avoid going upper body but that only leaves the match tied.  In both matches he couldn't generate offense.  That was NEVER a problem at 133.  I didn't see the Turner match.  

I do see your point regarding offense.  I didn't go back and rewatch but my thought at the time of match was that he is cable of AA at 141, he is making some fixable mistakes (some of that is not full commitment to offensive moves) but he has plenty of time to work on it and make improvement.  

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1 hour ago, KingK0ng said:

Then what do you call bumping Jacobe and Geer up a weight?

I call it being forced into another weight class by guys better than you.  If Boo is forced up because he can't beat Gfeller I'm all for it.

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7 hours ago, ionel said:

I'm not referring to who he has beat, but to how he is wrestling and that the mistakes he has made can be fixed.  He could be making the same mistakes at 133. 

He's undefeated, and has won his 2nd Scuffle title with wins over two ranked opponents.  I'd say he's tough as nails.

 

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5 hours ago, Peso said:

He's undefeated, and has won his 2nd Scuffle title with wins over two ranked opponents.  I'd say he's tough as nails.

 

Well the nail is meeting a hammer on Sunday, we'll see how it turns out.

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Obviously, he's a big underdog in both matches, but I can't wait to see how he does.  An interesting year for the Pokes.  If you could take away all the injuries and put the best team on the mat, I think they would be in position for a long shot to win the title.  I listen to John's radio show on 93.7, and he still has an inferno in his belly.  It must be frustrating trying to put the best team on the mat with the overload of AA caliber athletes in several weights.  Then throw in 4 or 5 injuries into the mix, and it would be difficult to navigate through that without losing your mind.  

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