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kionga

New Flo Rankings

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Disappointed that Flo has apparently stopped their commentary when updating the rankings.  Does anyone know why?

I liked it even more when they allowed for comments at the bottom of each weight's rankings.

Simple lists of numbers 1-20 are quite boring to me.  The rationale for a ranking change is much more interesting the the rank order.

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9 minutes ago, kionga said:

Disappointed that Flo has apparently stopped their commentary when updating the rankings.  Does anyone know why?

I liked it even more when they allowed for comments at the bottom of each weight's rankings.

Simple lists of numbers 1-20 are quite boring to me.  The rationale for a ranking change is much more interesting the the rank order.

I agree, listening to people try and defend their opinion is way better than looking at their opinion. I find it highly amusing.

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sorry guys, had no time between midlands and scuffle and then was running behind again this week. explanations are going up now! 

Stoll has been wrestling just enough to stay in the rankings. he's got steveson this weekend. if he wins, he stays 1. if he loses or doesn't wrestle, he'll drop below the guys that have been grinding. same with Seth Gross, who will likely drop out of the rankings if he doesn't wrestle this weekend. 

thanks for reading!

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49 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

Sam Stoll at #1 borders on preposterous. Are they not watching the actual wrestling? 

They are consistent in saying they how someone wins a match or how someone looked in a loss isn’t taken into account for rankings. 

Stoll doesn’t deserve the #1 ranking, even with those criteria. I imagine his win over Derek White last year is why he is ahead of White and Cassar. I guess the argument is that Gable’s best win is White and Stoll has that win too, so he deserves to be ahead of him. Pretty weak argument but it will all be resolved this weekend. 

I highly doubt Stoll shows up, but if he does, I think Gable majors him at least. A prime Stoll would lose to Gable too, but it might be competitive in folk due to Stoll’s size and hips. With this version of Stoll? He isn’t AAing, let alone beating Steveson. 

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It's hard to know why they keep Stoll at #1 despite his inactivity and unfortunate decline.  If he was the defending champion or something you could see it, but he's really just been a journeyman with a single 5th place finish his career.  I mean, just of the returning guys Hemida beat him bad at NCAAs last year and Nevills beat him two of three matches, and he's a backup.

 

Phillippi at #4 over with Fix at #6 was another puzzling choice.  And I'm completely baffled by Rasheed remaining at #7. 

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3 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

sorry guys, had no time between midlands and scuffle and then was running behind again this week. explanations are going up now! 

Stoll has been wrestling just enough to stay in the rankings. he's got steveson this weekend. if he wins, he stays 1. if he loses or doesn't wrestle, he'll drop below the guys that have been grinding. same with Seth Gross, who will likely drop out of the rankings if he doesn't wrestle this weekend. 

thanks for reading!

Thanks for taking the time to respond to us and giving us your rationale on the rankings. I'm sure it would be easy to just throw the rankings out there and say nothing at all!

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42 minutes ago, Cradle1 said:

It's hard to know why they keep Stoll at #1 despite his inactivity and unfortunate decline.  If he was the defending champion or something you could see it, but he's really just been a journeyman with a single 5th place finish his career.  I mean, just of the returning guys Hemida beat him bad at NCAAs last year and Nevills beat him two of three matches, and he's a backup.

 

Phillippi at #4 over with Fix at #6 was another puzzling choice.  And I'm completely baffled by Rasheed remaining at #7. 

Heavyweight is weird this year. A ton of talent graduated and then you have the remaining All-Americans like Dhesi, Hemida and Stoll all miss all or most of the first semester. Stoll wrestled in the Iowa State dual and then a couple matches at Midlands. Dhesi skipped everything until the Michigan dual, where he lost to Parris, and Hemda skipped everything until the F&M Open, where he lost to an unattached Seth Nevills. So Stoll has been more active than any other returning All-American and has yet to suffer a loss. But, if he doesn't wrestle against Gable Steveson this weekend, or does wrestle and lose, he will drop below the heavies who have been active. If Stoll wrestles and wins, he obviously stays #1. 

Phillippi is #4 because he beat Lizak and Pletcher. Fix beat Lizak but has not wrestled Pletcher. Fix does not have the resume to pass either Pletcher or Phillippi at the moment. Maybe that will change after he wrestles Suriano, but the rankings are a reflection of comparative results, not predictions (we have a new edition of Brackastrology coming out soon for that. 

Same deal for Rasheed. Who has he beaten that would justify being ranked ahead of Zavatsky? Hopefully Rasheed and Venz wrestle in a couple weeks. Then there's Ohio State and Myles Martin in February. Zavatsky also has some challenging matches coming up. If he falters Rasheed will likely move ahead of both him and Foster. otherwise, I don't think Rasheed's results at 197 last year warrant him automatically jumping anyone else, which is also not me saying that i wouldn't favor Rasheed in a matchup (nor is it me saying I would favor Rasheed). Just how the rankings shake out with Rasheed's weak schedule. not his fault, and I wish him the best the rest of the year!

46 minutes ago, Griff the BullRam said:

Thanks for taking the time to respond to us and giving us your rationale on the rankings. I'm sure it would be easy to just throw the rankings out there and say nothing at all!

Thanks, it's all fun, I much prefer having to explain rankings than having them be ignored!

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50 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

What I don’t get with Rasheed. He started at 5 preseason. Once the guys ahead of him lost he should have moved up not down. That’s normally how it works


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Valid point. The good news is he has a bunch of tough matches coming up. He has Venz, Embree, Parker and Myles. He will be ranked appropriately soon

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2 hours ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Heavyweight is weird this year. A ton of talent graduated and then you have the remaining All-Americans like Dhesi, Hemida and Stoll all miss all or most of the first semester. Stoll wrestled in the Iowa State dual and then a couple matches at Midlands. Dhesi skipped everything until the Michigan dual, where he lost to Parris, and Hemda skipped everything until the F&M Open, where he lost to an unattached Seth Nevills. So Stoll has been more active than any other returning All-American and has yet to suffer a loss. But, if he doesn't wrestle against Gable Steveson this weekend, or does wrestle and lose, he will drop below the heavies who have been active. If Stoll wrestles and wins, he obviously stays #1. 

Phillippi is #4 because he beat Lizak and Pletcher. Fix beat Lizak but has not wrestled Pletcher. Fix does not have the resume to pass either Pletcher or Phillippi at the moment. Maybe that will change after he wrestles Suriano, but the rankings are a reflection of comparative results, not predictions (we have a new edition of Brackastrology coming out soon for that. 

Same deal for Rasheed. Who has he beaten that would justify being ranked ahead of Zavatsky? Hopefully Rasheed and Venz wrestle in a couple weeks. Then there's Ohio State and Myles Martin in February. Zavatsky also has some challenging matches coming up. If he falters Rasheed will likely move ahead of both him and Foster. otherwise, I don't think Rasheed's results at 197 last year warrant him automatically jumping anyone else, which is also not me saying that i wouldn't favor Rasheed in a matchup (nor is it me saying I would favor Rasheed). Just how the rankings shake out with Rasheed's weak schedule. not his fault, and I wish him the best the rest of the year!

Thanks, it's all fun, I much prefer having to explain rankings than having them be ignored!

If your methodology returns Sam Stoll at #1, then change your methodology.  

You are 100% certain that the ranking is not right, and there are not even obvious results that oblige you to keep it that way.  It looks like you just threw your hands up in the air and said "That weights hard to rank so I won't try."

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44 minutes ago, boconnell said:

If your methodology returns Sam Stoll at #1, then change your methodology.  

You are 100% certain that the ranking is not right, and there are not even obvious results that oblige you to keep it that way.  It looks like you just threw your hands up in the air and said "That weights hard to rank so I won't try."

I don't follow you. rankings are almost never 100% right. in my mind, Sam Stoll earned the right to still be #1 right now so I personally see no reason to change my "methodology", but I also get the reasonable people will disagree. I also didn't give up or not try to rank 285. it's obviously ranked, 1 through 20, and I literally just tried to explain why it is the way it is. you can disagree though, that's the fun part of rankings!

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Valid point. The good news is he has a bunch of tough matches coming up. He has Venz, Embree, Parker and Myles. He will be ranked appropriately soon


No doubt he’ll get his chances. The point was how does a guy go from 5 to 7 without taking a loss? Every guy they have in front of him has taken losses and some multiple.

I don’t think any of the matches you mentioned are tough except Parker and Myles who are the only 2 that should be ranked ahead at this point


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I don't follow you. rankings are almost never 100% right. in my mind, Sam Stoll earned the right to still be #1 right now so I personally see no reason to change my "methodology", but I also get the reasonable people will disagree. I also didn't give up or not try to rank 285. it's obviously ranked, 1 through 20, and I literally just tried to explain why it is the way it is. you can disagree though, that's the fun part of rankings!


Can you explain Rasheed please. Why did he go from 5 to 7 without taking a loss? The guys ahead of him at the time (Venz/Zz) lost. Don’t you normally move the guy from 5 up?

For example. Dhesi just lost. You moved him to 5 and everyone moved up a spot. You didn’t bring Parris to 1, Dhesi 2 etc (and I agree with that)


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Foster jumped Zavatsky (and Rasheed) when he beat him twice at CKLV (explained in the rankings here). Reenan jumped Venz (and Rasheed) when he beat Venz in a dual meet (explained in the rankings here). Rasheed has not beaten anybody this year to jump anyone in the rankings ahead of him and his career body of work does not justify it either.  But Rasheed is very fun to watch and I wish him luck. If he wrestles and beats Venz this he will move ahead of him, perhaps also of Reenan, will have to figure that one out when the time comes. Additionally, other guys ahead of him now could take worse losses than they have so far and move down. lots of stuff could happen! then we have the big 10s to help sort things out before NCAAs. 

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1 hour ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

I don't follow you. rankings are almost never 100% right. in my mind, Sam Stoll earned the right to still be #1 right now so I personally see no reason to change my "methodology", but I also get the reasonable people will disagree. I also didn't give up or not try to rank 285. it's obviously ranked, 1 through 20, and I literally just tried to explain why it is the way it is. you can disagree though, that's the fun part of rankings!

Your explanation was that a future match that may or may not occur will either fix what is broken or it won't.  

Edited by boconnell

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19 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

 


Can you explain Rasheed please. Why did he go from 5 to 7 without taking a loss? The guys ahead of him at the time (Venz/Zz) lost. Don’t you normally move the guy from 5 up?

For example. Dhesi just lost. You moved him to 5 and everyone moved up a spot. You didn’t bring Parris to 1, Dhesi 2 etc (and I agree with that)


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What quality wins does Rasheed have?  I see none.  ZZ has a few, and only losses to a highly ranked opponent (Foster); Venz also has a couple quality wins, and losses mostly to highly ranked guys.    For example, if a #3 loses to #1 and #4 beats a guy from Finger Lakes Prep, should #4 move up?

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1 minute ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

Foster jumped Zavatsky (and Rasheed) when he beat him twice at CKLV (explained in the rankings here). Reenan jumped Venz (and Rasheed) when he beat Venz in a dual meet (explained in the rankings here). Rasheed has not beaten anybody this year to jump anyone in the rankings ahead of him and his career body of work does not justify it either.  But Rasheed is very fun to watch and I wish him luck. If he wrestles and beats Venz this he will move ahead of him, perhaps also of Reenan, will have to figure that one out when the time comes. Additionally, other guys ahead of him now could take worse losses than they have so far and move down. lots of stuff could happen! then we have the big 10s to help sort things out before NCAAs. 

This is totally inconsistent with how you are ranking Stoll.  You jumped Rasheed because guys behind him beat guys ahead of him.  But when guys behind Stoll beat guys ahead of him you just moved up Stoll.  What has Stoll done to get a benefit of the doubt that Rasheed doesn't get?  

There is no consistency and no logic behind Stoll at 1. 

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Just now, boconnell said:

Your explanation was that a future match will either fix what is broken or it won't.  

I don't think anything is broken or needs to be fixed. often, NCAA results are weird and there is no clear cut, 100% ranking order, especially early in the season, and sometimes continuing on through to NCAAs. heavyweight has been very weird this year. the Iowa Minnesota dual will shed some clarity on things, but not much!

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1 minute ago, boconnell said:

This is totally inconsistent with how you are ranking Stoll.  You jumped Rasheed because guys behind him beat guys ahead of him.  But when guys behind Stoll beat guys ahead of him you just moved up Stoll.  What has Stoll done to get a benefit of the doubt that Rasheed doesn't get?  

There is no consistency and no logic behind Stoll at 1. 

it's two totally different weight classes and sets of circumstances! Stoll started the year #1. he then beat Gremmel December 1. Then Oregon State announced Dhesi would return so Dhesi got inserted ahead of Stoll. Stoll won two matches at Midlands, then Dhesi lost to Mason Parris, who has losses to Stencel, Singletary and Jennings. if you can draw obvious and consistent parallels to what happened at 184 their your mind operates on a scale far beyond what mine is capable of. if that is the case, I encourage you to try your hand at publishing your own set of top 20 rankings. It's a big of a chore but also very fun!

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1 minute ago, Jaroslav Hasek said:

it's two totally different weight classes and sets of circumstances! Stoll started the year #1. he then beat Gremmel December 1. Then Oregon State announced Dhesi would return so Dhesi got inserted ahead of Stoll. Stoll won two matches at Midlands, then Dhesi lost to Mason Parris, who has losses to Stencel, Singletary and Jennings. if you can draw obvious and consistent parallels to what happened at 184 their your mind operates on a scale far beyond what mine is capable of. if that is the case, I encourage you to try your hand at publishing your own set of top 20 rankings. It's a big of a chore but also very fun!

I didn't realize he beat Gremmel.  I totally missed that one.  He is definitely #1 then.  

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What quality wins does Rasheed have?  I see none.  ZZ has a few, and only losses to a highly ranked opponent (Foster); Venz also has a couple quality wins, and losses mostly to highly ranked guys.    For example, if a #3 loses to #1 and #4 beats a guy from Finger Lakes Prep, should #4 move up?

 

You’re missing the point. The first rankings were 1. Martin 2. Parker 3 Venz 4 Zz 5 Shak. Venz and Zz lost to guys outside the top 10 not to guys in front of them.

 

So when ZZ lost, Shak should have moved up to 4. When Venz lost, Shak should have moved to 3.

 

I agree with you if Venz or ZZ lost to Martin or Parker there shouldn’t be any movement for those guys since they lost to a higher ranked guy.

 

When they lost, not only did they stay ahead of Shak, they moved the lower ranked guys ahead of Shak

 

 

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