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skikayaker

Stoll #1?

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8 hours ago, Sublime607 said:

If Stoll sits and Steveson wins out. I could see the Big 10 making a statement and awarding Gable the #1 seed.

The B10 has a process & criteria they follow, I'm betting they will continue to follow that process regardless of if any think it makes a statement or is viewed by some as "common or uncommon sense."

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14 minutes ago, ionel said:

The B10 has a process & criteria they follow, I'm betting they will continue to follow that process regardless of if any think it makes a statement or is viewed by some as "common or uncommon sense."

What is it?  Serious question, I googled and can't seem to find it.

According to this article on Flo, "the Big Ten coaches can do whatever they'd like. Conference seeding is not like NCAA seeding, in that it is not done by an independent and separate committee and can theoretically factor in prior years to break ties"

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6112069-the-big-tens-seeding-conundrum-at-165

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42 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

What is it?  Serious question, I googled and can't seem to find it.

According to this article on Flo, "the Big Ten coaches can do whatever they'd like. Conference seeding is not like NCAA seeding, in that it is not done by an independent and separate committee and can theoretically factor in prior years to break ties"

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/6112069-the-big-tens-seeding-conundrum-at-165

Sounds like common sense, really. The results from past years SHOULD be considered for seeding purposes. I've seen tons of guys over the years that don't give a damn about losing dual matches, but put a trophy or a medal up as a reward and they are unstoppable.

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1 hour ago, ionel said:

The B10 has a process & criteria they follow, I'm betting they will continue to follow that process regardless of if any think it makes a statement or is viewed by some as "common or uncommon sense."

 

I think Steveson's credentials are so burnished at this point that it's not incredulous that he'd receive the #1 seed if Brands sits out Stoll.

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25 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

 

I think Steveson's credentials are so burnished at this point that it's not incredulous that he'd receive the #1 seed if Brands sits out Stoll.

If Stoll specifically ducks scheduled b10 competition that will hurt him in seeding if other competition is undefeated.  I'm expecting the duck.

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

He was apparently shot in the knee over the summer.  Calling it a duck sure seems strong, when it seems the goal is just to get him to the tournament as healthy as possible.

 

Pffft. Never heard Robles complain about only having 1 knee. Stoll's a big puss.

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52 minutes ago, ionel said:

If Stoll specifically ducks scheduled b10 competition that will hurt him in seeding if other competition is undefeated.  I'm expecting the duck.

 

Me too. How pathetic is that? I hate the ducking BS.

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3 minutes ago, VakAttack said:

I suppose this is another example of you "taking shots at the fans" and not at the wrestlers or coaches?

My comment is merely about his bad luck health wise as a wrestler,  bad luck that has been heavily chronicled. That and Brands penchant for only wrestling him against certain wrestlers. 

Edited by TBar1977

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

He was apparently shot in the knee over the summer.  Calling it a duck sure seems strong, when it seems the goal is just to get him to the tournament as healthy as possible.

Well to be fair they're not just ducking Gable, they're ducking anyone that could challenge him.   I get why they're doing it but it's pretty much the definition of a duck if he's healthy enough to wrestle some guys but not others.

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1 minute ago, 1032004 said:

Well to be fair they're not just ducking Gable, they're ducking anyone that could challenge him.   I get why they're doing it but it's pretty much the definition of a duck if he's healthy enough to wrestle some guys but not others.

If you want to frame it under those specific parameters, fine.  I just don't see it that way.  There just seems to be little evidence that is anything related to "beign afraid" or "protecting seed" when it's really just about "staying healthy".  He's had three seasons affected greatly by serious injuries to his knees.  This is his last season.  We have decided, as a sport, that duals don't matter, the Midlands don't matter, only the NCAA tournament matters.

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You may have decided that duals don't matter, Vak, and maybe even the Brands believe that. I wouldn't know. But not everyone feels that way and the sport as a whole hasn't decided anything in that regards so long as duals remain on the schedule. Some teams show up ready to roll every time out. 

Also, you state the Stoll situation is really just about staying healthy, but for that to be true then Stoll wouldn't wrestle anyone until the Big10 Tournament. 1032004 makes a good point when he says Stoll is put out there and he's healthy enough to wrestle some guys, but not others. That seems more like seed or confidence protection, not physical health. 

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1 hour ago, VakAttack said:

If you want to frame it under those specific parameters, fine.  I just don't see it that way.  There just seems to be little evidence that is anything related to "beign afraid" or "protecting seed" when it's really just about "staying healthy".  He's had three seasons affected greatly by serious injuries to his knees.  This is his last season.  We have decided, as a sport, that duals don't matter, the Midlands don't matter, only the NCAA tournament matters.

 

"They're afraid" of him getting injured.   That's pretty much ducking.

But I agree it's not really seed protection, since it seems doubtful he gets seeded ahead of Gable at B10's at this point.

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39 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

You may have decided that duals don't matter, Vak, and maybe even the Brands believe that. I wouldn't know. But not everyone feels that way and the sport as a whole hasn't decided anything in that regards so long as duals remain on the schedule. Some teams show up ready to roll every time out. 

Also, you state the Stoll situation is really just about staying healthy, but for that to be true then Stoll wouldn't wrestle anyone until the Big10 Tournament. 1032004 makes a good point when he says Stoll is put out there and he's healthy enough to wrestle some guys, but not others. That seems more like seed or confidence protection, not physical health. 

No, you and the coach of your favorite school ( and most fans and the coach of my favorite school) and many others have very much decided that.  Wrestlers and programs are judged exclusively on NCAA tournament results.  No value is placed on a dual except for how it might affect the NCAA tournament for potential seeds, and no value at all is placed on the result of the actual duals.

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Call it ducking if you want but in my opinion when you have a perfectly healthy wrestler that wrestles every match except all of a sudden one that he probably won't win, that is ducking to me.  On the other hand if Stoll, or anyone, is coming back from a serious injury and the coach puts him in spots based on when he feels he is ready both physically and mentally, I think that is just smart.  Maybe it is the ranking that bothers people, but that will take care of itself at the conference tournament, or before, no matter where he is ranked now.  

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Wrestling a guy that isnt going to even attempt a takedown is a lot less stress on Stolls knees then wrestling someone like a gable. So he could very well be healthy enough to wrestle some lower tier guys, but not be healthy enough to wrestle Gable. If for legit health reasons, I dont see how you can consider it a duck. So if Stoll doesnt wrestle, he isnt ducking, but should still be penalized do to lack off competition.  The dude got shot, it's no surprise that the coaches would want to take it slow, to get him back in form for the ncaas. If Stoll were to wrestle every match like some of these people seem to want, he would not be wrestling at the ncaas for his senior year most likely. Props to the Brands for seeing this and doing what is best for their athlete. 

Edited by Molsen

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26 minutes ago, Molsen said:

Wrestling a guy that isnt going to even attempt a takedown is a lot less stress on Stolls knees then wrestling someone like a gable. So he could very well be healthy enough to wrestle some lower tier guys, but not be healthy enough to wrestle Gable. If for legit health reasons, I dont see how you can consider it a duck. So if Stoll doesnt wrestle, he isnt ducking, but should still be penalized do to lack off competition.  The dude got shot, it's no surprise that the coaches would want to take it slow, to get him back in form for the ncaas. If Stoll were to wrestle every match like some of these people seem to want, he would not be wrestling at the ncaas for his senior year most likely. Props to the Brands for seeing this and doing what is best for their athlete. 

Injuries don't occur in competitive matches anymore frequently than they do in easy matches.  Knee injuries are non-contact as often as they are contact.  Sometimes guys even injure their knees while pranking their teammates in bed.  Limiting the number of matches will lower his injury risk.  Limiting competitive matches is the definition of ducking opponents.

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Injuries don't occur in competitive matches anymore frequently than they do in easy matches.  Knee injuries are non-contact as often as they are contact.  Sometimes guys even injure their knees while pranking their teammates in bed.  Limiting the number of matches will lower his injury risk.  Limiting competitive matches is the definition of ducking opponents.


Agree. My take is he shouldn’t have wrestled at all this year even if there was a slight chance of reinjure the knee. If was never ready until B1Gs then so be it.

Let him wrestle his first match at B1Gs and steal a spot

This picking and choosing opponents makes no sense to me from a rehab perspectives


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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4 minutes ago, pish6969 said:

 


Agree. My take is he shouldn’t have wrestled at all this year even if there was a slight chance of reinjure the knee. If was never ready until B1Gs then so be it.

Let him wrestle his first match at B1Gs and steal a spot

This picking and choosing opponents makes no sense to me from a rehab perspectives


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

It keeps him frm being completely rusty while also minimizing the risk of injury to the knee.

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24 minutes ago, boconnell said:

Injuries don't occur in competitive matches anymore frequently than they do in easy matches.  Knee injuries are non-contact as often as they are contact.  Sometimes guys even injure their knees while pranking their teammates in bed.  Limiting the number of matches will lower his injury risk.  Limiting competitive matches is the definition of ducking opponents.

A wrestler that is going to constantly attack (or attack as much as any heavyweight would) ie your higher ranked wrestlers, are going to put a lot more pressure on the knee that is already injured. He is likely still recovering, but as vak said they dont want to have him completely rusty. Against the lower tier guys who arent going to put as much pressure on his knee, there is still that chance of the injury getting worse but its less likely then constant pressure from the top dogs.

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2 hours ago, VakAttack said:

No, you and the coach of your favorite school ( and most fans and the coach of my favorite school) and many others have very much decided that.  Wrestlers and programs are judged exclusively on NCAA tournament results.  No value is placed on a dual except for how it might affect the NCAA tournament for potential seeds, and no value at all is placed on the result of the actual duals.

 

Actually, it is far more the fans of other schools and some fans of your school that feel that way. Cael Sanderson doesn't feel that way and the evidence for that statement is strong. His teams show up and wrestle every dual to win. You'll be hard pressed to find too many PSU fans that will say they think duals don't matter either. And besides what they say, their actions say they think duals do matter. How many sell outs in a row for Penn State? A great many now. 

It isn't my issue that some fans are disgruntled their team doesn't win so they take up this PHONY mantra. 

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1 hour ago, Molsen said:

A wrestler that is going to constantly attack (or attack as much as any heavyweight would) ie your higher ranked wrestlers, are going to put a lot more pressure on the knee that is already injured. He is likely still recovering, but as vak said they dont want to have him completely rusty. Against the lower tier guys who arent going to put as much pressure on his knee, there is still that chance of the injury getting worse but its less likely then constant pressure from the top dogs.

He's not wrestling terrible guys to get rust off.  And he's not wrestling them because you get hurt less often in easy matches.  Like I said, number of matches is a legit concern.  Hard vs. Easy matches is not.  Guys absolutely don't hurt knees at a higher rate in tougher matches.  That's not how it works.  

He's simply biding his time and getting ready for the postseason.  It's totally possible to do the 100% without a doubt right thing while ducking a match.  

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But if he knee is still recovering, its already hurt. Meaning the constant pressure from better wrestlers could hurt the recovery processes.  It would cause more pressure on the knee with someone actually attacking the knee or other leg, then the lower tier guys who arent likely to attack as often.

Edited by Molsen

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