Blair at the Midlands Tournament

[TobusRex 1,825]

Just curious here. Any experts care to state where they think Blair HS would've finished in the tournament standings if they attended the Midlands this year? I thought it was a very weak Midlands but I'm not much of an authority on "elite" HS teams like Blair,  Bergen Catholic, etc. 

[klehner 376]

31 minutes ago, TobusRex said:

Just curious here. Any experts care to state where they think Blair HS would've finished in the tournament standings if they attended the Midlands this year? I thought it was a very weak Midlands but I'm not much of an authority on "elite" HS teams like Blair,  Bergen Catholic, etc. 

Not well.  It's like asking how Duke would do in the NBA.  Only a few Blair guys are capable of competing at the D1 level right now.  Maybe only Colaiocco, Ramirez and Ferrari.

[Relentless125 37]

No Blair kid wins a match at Midlands. High school and college are very different levels.

[VakAttack 2,565]

Is it a fistfight?

[TobusRex 1,825]

36 minutes ago, Relentless125 said:

No Blair kid wins a match at Midlands. High school and college are very different levels.

Not even a single match? 

[steamboat_charlie v2 939]

They've got 5+ kids in their lineup that are capable of winning a match at Midlands.  Bracketing would play a major factor.  

 

[NJDan 541]

2 hours ago, klehner said:

Not well.  It's like asking how Duke would do in the NBA.  Only a few Blair guys are capable of competing at the D1 level right now.  Maybe only Colaiocco, Ramirez and Ferrari.

Didn't high school kids used to compete in the Midlands? Didn't the best kids place at times? If that's the case, it seems odd to say that no one from Blair could win a match?

And FWIW, Zion Williamson and maybe 4-5 other Dukies would do fine in the NBA right now, even if the team might not.

 

[HurricaneWrestling2 578]

15 hours ago, NJDan said:

Didn't high school kids used to compete in the Midlands? Didn't the best kids place at times?

You had to be a really great high schooler to be invited.  Not sure this list is exhaustive, but I think the only ones have been:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Cary Kolat - ?
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)
• Jason Welch - 2007 - 6th (157 lb)

Edited January 12, 2019 by HurricaneWrestling2
add to list

[KTG119 817]

iirc Kolat wrestled there twice in HS. 3rd first time and 4th the other year. 

[Relentless125 37]

4 hours ago, TobusRex said:

Not even a single match? 

Okay, maybe that was a bit extreme. Its possible they win a couple matches but it really depends on who they hit. I think even the D3 kids give them difficulty. There really is generally a big gap unless the kid is something special.

[LJB 1,430]

5 hours ago, Relentless125 said:

No Blair kid wins a match at Midlands. High school and college are very different levels.

you do know a 15 year old won a college open last weekend, right?

[UsedToBe103 17]

2 hours ago, LJB said:

you do know a 15 year old won a college open last weekend, right?

I hadn't heard about this.  What wrestler and what tournament?

[LJB 1,430]

Nuway College Open - 33 bracket won by a first year cadet

[LJB 1,430]

it wasn'y anything special as far as opens go, but, it was a 15 year old running house on "college" aged kids...

and lets be honest, most of the opens are shockingly bad before the quarters... 

[Plasmodium 1,548]

4 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

You had to be a really great high schooler to be invited.  Not sure this list is exhaustive, but I think the only ones have been:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)

I think Jason Welch placed pretty also.  Maybe 3rd or 2nd?

[1032004 778]

I believe these guys are all true freshman (correct me if I’m wrong but also probably missed some):

Glory 3rd 125

Cardani 6th 125

Blockhus 4th 141

Sasso 3rd 149

Teemer 5th 149

Brooks - made quarters at 174 then MFF

Hoffman 5th 184

Sloan 2nd 197

Warner 5th 197

Parris 5th 285

Cassioppi 7th 285

 

So I think it’s fair to say some of these guys may not be too far ahead of the top Blair guys, so I’d think Blair could probably at least have a couple guys place in the 5-8 range.

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by 1032004

[Housebuye 2,032]

I think the difference here is top level recruit vs the best high school team. 

Blair has a couple guys who are/will be top 25 in their class. A top 25 senior (overall, not at their weight) will beat the lower level college guys (D2, D3) obviously with some exceptions as some of those guys are better than D1 guys. 

A guy ranked 12th in his weight at 220 in high school? He is likely to go 0-2. 

Keep in mind though, Kordell Norfleet was ranked 7th at his weight (it was an upper weight too) in high school. As a true freshman, he won PAC 12s and qualified for NCAAs. Doesn’t mean too much because he definitely improved training with Zahid, but sometimes rankings don’t tell the whole story. 

[ionel 1,157]

12 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

You had to be a really great high schooler to be invited.  Not sure this list is exhaustive, but I think the only ones have been:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)

Jason Welch - 2007 - 6th (157 lb)

Edited January 12, 2019 by ionel

[1032004 778]

1 hour ago, Housebuye said:

I think the difference here is top level recruit vs the best high school team. 

Blair has a couple guys who are/will be top 25 in their class. A top 25 senior (overall, not at their weight) will beat the lower level college guys (D2, D3) obviously with some exceptions as some of those guys are better than D1 guys. 

A guy ranked 12th in his weight at 220 in high school? He is likely to go 0-2. 

Keep in mind though, Kordell Norfleet was ranked 7th at his weight (it was an upper weight too) in high school. As a true freshman, he won PAC 12s and qualified for NCAAs. Doesn’t mean too much because he definitely improved training with Zahid, but sometimes rankings don’t tell the whole story. 

 

So what do you think a top 25 senior could do at Midlands?

According to Flo, Blair has:

#1 at 126 (Sr)

#1 at 132 (Soph)

#2 at 170 (Sr)

#4 at 220 (Sr)

Looking at the Midlands brackets, I don’t think it’s out of the question that they could have placed top 8 at 125, 133, 174 and 197 (not sure how much the 220 weighs, and maybe the soph struggles but 133 looked relatively weak IMO).

[HurricaneWrestling2 578]

Thanks for the updates, fellows.  It's a short list for sure.  I think Kolat was only a sophomore when he placed third.  If anyone has additional  info on his other appearance, I'd like to update the below list:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Cary Kolat - ?
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)
• Jason Welch - 2007 - 6th (157 lb)

[KTG119 817]

2 hours ago, HurricaneWrestling2 said:

Thanks for the updates, fellows.  It's a short list for sure.  I think Kolat was only a sophomore when he placed third.  If anyone has additional  info on his other appearance, I'd like to update the below list:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Cary Kolat - ?
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)
• Jason Welch - 2007 - 6th (157 lb)

Kolat 4th 126 1990

 

https://nusports.com/documents/2012/7/16//1990MidlandsBracket.pdf?id=3867

 

 

[HurricaneWrestling2 578]

56 minutes ago, KTG119 said:

Kolat 4th 126 1990

 

https://nusports.com/documents/2012/7/16//1990MidlandsBracket.pdf?id=3867

 

 

Thanks.  So presumably, this is the entire list to date:

• Jimmy Carr - 1973 - Champ (126 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1989 - 3rd (118 lb)
• Cary Kolat - 1990 - 4th (126 lb)
• Alex Tsirtsis - 2003 - DNP (141 lb)
• Coey Jantzen - 2006 - 7th (133 lb)
• Jason Welch - 2007 - 6th (157 lb)

[Gantry 1,576]

I hope this doesn't sound harsh or that I'm slamming a legend - but what the heck happened to Jimmy Carr in college?  How does a guy that wrestled in the world championships as a SOPHOMORE in high school, Olympics as a Junior in hs and wins the Midlands as a senior in hs only end up with one 5th place finish in college?

[HurricaneWrestling2 578]

54 minutes ago, Gantry said:

I hope this doesn't sound harsh or that I'm slamming a legend - but what the heck happened to Jimmy Carr in college?  How does a guy that wrestled in the world championships as a SOPHOMORE in high school, Olympics as a Junior in hs and wins the Midlands as a senior in hs only end up with one 5th place finish in college?

He married early.and went to Kentucky to help his brother Fletcher start the wrestling program there.  Already had a couple of kids while still a freshman in college.   He was the # 2 seed at 126 at the 1975 NCAA's but  DNP.  Then he had another kid during his sophomore year.  Therefore, many think that his family responsibilities had a lot to do with how his career turned out.  (Plus, my impression is  that he was always more interested in freestyle and making it back to the Olympics than in collegiate folkstyle wrestling anyway).  

 

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by HurricaneWrestling2

[TobusRex 1,825]

23 hours ago, 1032004 said:

 

So what do you think a top 25 senior could do at Midlands?

According to Flo, Blair has:

#1 at 126 (Sr)

#1 at 132 (Soph)

#2 at 170 (Sr)

#4 at 220 (Sr)

Looking at the Midlands brackets, I don’t think it’s out of the question that they could have placed top 8 at 125, 133, 174 and 197 (not sure how much the 220 weighs, and maybe the soph struggles but 133 looked relatively weak IMO).

If Blair placed top 8 at 4 weights, that'd probably put them in the top 20 team scores, right?